Deere 110 with BB1284 box blade, not working properly?

[Martian]

If putting known good female QCs on which ever of the 3 rear SCVs that is causing the problem does not fix it, next check the lines for damage (dented, smashed kinked). Last I would suspect a problem with the diverter valve. I doubt you will have plugged line.

I checked the lines today, nothing out of the ordinary that I saw. I have a suspicion about the diverted valve though. When I switch it to the rear, sometimes it likes to try and operate both the fel and the rear 3. Anyone else experience this. Seems like it loads in the rear and them the fel jerks. Maybe this just happens?

 

[AKfish]

I checked the lines today, nothing out of the ordinary that I saw. I have a suspicion about the diverted valve though. When I switch it to the rear, sometimes it likes to try and operate both the fel and the rear 3. Anyone else experience this. Seems like it loads in the rear and them the fel jerks. Maybe this just happens?

Nope... never had anything like that happen - doesn't sound good, either.

Mine will "clunk" pretty good when switching back and forth. Can be felt as well as heard!

AKfish

 

[AKfish]

Martian,

Occurred to me after reading your post - does the rocker switch on the FEL joystick engage and operate solidly? Not glitchy... you know - gotta hold your mouth just right; or it doesn't quite switch back and forth or it doesn't energize the cylinder firmly when pressed...etc.

AKfish

 

[jenkinsph]

Like AKfish, never experienced an issue with the diverter sending fluid to both front and rear. I also agree that you should have a noticable shift from the diverter spool. Going to look up the assembly to determine if it is a single spool or 3 spool setup. Betting it is one though, and gives me a chance to be WRONG again.

 

[Mistyridgefarm]

It appears the diverted is not switching completely. It takes good voltage and current to switch in a solid manner. A bad ground or any excessive resistance in the wiring could drop the voltage and the coil cannot pull the diverter to overcome the spring return.

It also could have debris in the diverter stopping the valve movement.

I don't have a diagram to look at but could you hook the rippers up to the set of scvs that are normal position of the diverter? That would be the bucket curl function I would guess. If the ripper works with joystick then it isn't air. You say the tractor loads when the ripper moves so it sounds like the diverter slug is centering between the two sets of ports.

Again, that leaves you with either too much wiring resistance from the joystick switch through the diverter to ground, or debris in the diverter, or a failure of the diverter itself.

 

[jenkinsph]

I checked the lines today, nothing out of the ordinary that I saw. I have a suspicion about the diverted valve though. When I switch it to the rear, sometimes it likes to try and operate both the fel and the rear 3. Anyone else experience this. Seems like it loads in the rear and them the fel jerks. Maybe this just happens?

The fel raise and curl should both be on separate circuits from the rear third remote. The rear third remote and the fel auxillary circuits share the same valve which is electro hydraulic, controlled via the rocker switch.
Might be some bad seals or orings between the spool sections in the diverter valve. This might be alowing the fluid to move to multiple ports.

Looking up the diverter valve it is a single spool with three sections inline, these three "stacked" sections are shifted by this single spool with one solenoid.

Something simple to try, I haven't compared the disconnects but can you plug the rippers into the front auxillary connectors and see if this works correctly?

 

[jenkinsph]

It appears the diverted is not switching completely. It takes good voltage and current to switch in a solid manner. A bad ground or any excessive resistance in the wiring could drop the voltage and the coil cannot pull the diverter to overcome the spring return.

It also could have debris in the diverter stopping the valve movement.

I don't have a diagram to look at but could you hook the rippers up to the set of scvs that are normal position of the diverter? That would be the bucket curl function I would guess. If the ripper works with joystick then it isn't air. You say the tractor loads when the ripper moves so it sounds like the diverter slug is centering between the two sets of ports.

Again, that leaves you with either too much wiring resistance from the joystick switch through the diverter to ground, or debris in the diverter, or a failure of the diverter itself.

You have raised some good points. If he plugs into the front auxillary ports this will test the diverter spool in the normal position.

 

[Martian]

Taken me a while to respond, I've been out all day and wanted to add a little detail so I wanted a keyboard, not a phone.

It does give the big 'click', you can definitely hear it and feel it when I shift the energy to the rear. The problem comes more when I use it that say I want to use the tilt cylinder (side to side motion) and it will also jiggle the rollback. It's a harsh jerk only a couple inches and then really loads the tractor. At first I didn't believe the tilt cylinder was working correctly, as both the tilt and rollback would harshly jerk and load the tractor. When I added the 1200 pounds of the box blade the tilt started working, but when it got to the end of the cylinder, it would still load the tractor and jerk the rollback. Again, it's not like the rollback and the tilt cylinder just work simultaneously together with full motion. I've also noticed that it's more the roll back, not so much the lift, and the one time I had the grapple on (first time I had the BB on) I remember it to be jumping a lot. This still wouldn't explain why the top (worked all the time, every time) and the tilt (worked so-so, better with box blade on) work, but not the box blade cylinder.

Just to try I looped the hose on the middle and bottom set of remotes. The middle would load the tractor if I pushed it to fast and would jerk the FEL. The bottom, on the other hand, would load the tractor only in one direction and didn't jerk the fel as bad, seemed more subtle. I was in a hurry and not 100% sure on this, though. Since the others were so much more blatant I just assumed it was normal and wasn't paying much attention.

To answer some of the questions/statements:

It would be awesome if it was just a loose wire. I can only imagine the price of a whole, new diverter. A wire would be great. Even debris would (I think) easily taken out and a lot cheaper.

I did hook the rippers up to where I had the TL cylinder. It worked fine in that position. The bottom remote has seemed to worked well, the top two remotes are what have been giving more trouble. The bottom has always been able to fully extract and retract the cylinders.

I wasn't specific enough, sorry. The raise and curl isn't affected when hitting the 3rd function, but when I am trying to move the tilt in the rear, it will jerk the curl, but NOT vice versa. It would also work if I had something hooked to the 3rd function in the rear (box blade) and tried to move the rippers and had something in the front (grapple) it would jerk the grapple. It jerks whatever has the same function.

The FEL auxiliary ports are no leak disconnects and different from those in the rear. With that said, they are a HUGE PITA and I'm thinking about rigging something up so they are normal 3/4" QC. They don't let any fluid out, but you have to be hulk hogan to get them pushed in. I was thinking just getting the QC for each end and then putting a female end on it and taking the no leak off the grapple and putting male 3/4" QC on the grapple. Still not sure about doing it yet, though.

 

[jenkinsph]

Looking more to be diverter problems imo. May need rebuilding if it is leaking internally. I would expect you could rebuild it since it isn't real complicated.
I will look at mine this weekend when the weather improves. Here's some illustrations of the diverter and how it is plumbed into the hydraulic system.

Anyone familiar with the directional control cartridges numbered 65 and 66?

edit I removed two links worked great last night but don't work today.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

Martian, did you pay your local dealer to go through the machine before it was delivered? I'd be asking what exactly they checked. It's sounds like a leaky shuttle or slid internal to the diverter. I had an issue where a small piece of debris became lodged in the rockshaft pilot slide and it behaved similar to what your seeing. After removing the debris all was well.

Matt

 

[Martian]

Whenever I see 'diverter problems' I'm reading 'money'.

That direct link didn't work for me, I've always had trouble direct-linking a JD parts item.

I'm going to mess around in there and hope I can find some sort of brush/debris that is blocking it and be good to go. Probably wishful thinking.

Looking more like neither of us were right!

I did pay the dealer to go through it. Checked and changed fluids and a full service. I wanted the pros to check it all out so I didn't look over something obvious, but it looks like they may have looked over something as well. My guess is they didn't know that there was the 3 spool rear and didn't try and test it. Since its difficult to get back there without the backhoe on, can't imagine they'd try with it on.

This goes on much further and I'll just take it back up there. I want to check my based for something simple, but I just don't have the knowledge or time to rebuild it.

 

[Martian]

I found the diagram, and I know why I was reading 'money'. The price of the diverter valve is... $1,549.60. Yep, ONE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED FORTY NINE DOLLARS AND SIXTY CENTS! If I truly need a new diverter valve, I won't be using the rear 3 hydraulics for a while. That's a lot of money...

On the other hand, a hydraulic quick disconnect is $27.50... Not getting my hopes up...

 

[Mistyridgefarm]

I still would change the female QC on that SCV. If the diverter is giving a solid "thunk" when you switch it, it may be ok or at least it isn't wiring. The diverter might be bad or has debris but hose QC are often the culprit. Mine will do the same thing when I don't get them seated right. I also use a neighbors baler with hydraulic tie that gives my port a fit. The way I can always tell is one hose will be super tight when valve is activated and the other will be slack.

I'll look at the diagrams tonight when I can get on the computer. I am beginning to wonder if their might be a check valve on that port. It could also be a relief valve if each SCV has their own. I'm just not that familiar with the TLB setup. I know some SCVs have switchable settings for single, double acting, and motor controls. It couldn't be something like that is it?

 

[jenkinsph]

Martian,
I removed the links, worked fine last night with a full screen blow up of the diverter with surrounding hydraulic lines. At any rate there are repair kits and replaceable cartridges for the diverter valve. So far I don't see where a diverter would need replacement.

Have to say you may be better served to have your dealer trouble shoot this problem for you. There are so many things that need to be checked to narrow this down and it would be difficult for a person untrained in hydraulics to do this.

 

[jenkinsph]

I still would change the female QC on that SCV. If the diverter is giving a solid "thunk" when you switch it, it may be ok or at least it isn't wiring. The diverter might be bad or has debris but hose QC are often the culprit. Mine will do the same thing when I don't get them seated right. I also use a neighbors baler with hydraulic tie that gives my port a fit. The way I can always tell is one hose will be super tight when valve is activated and the other will be slack.

I'll look at the diagrams tonight when I can get on the computer. I am beginning to wonder if their might be a check valve on that port. It could also be a relief valve if each SCV has their own. I'm just not that familiar with the TLB setup. I know some SCVs have switchable settings for single, double acting, and motor controls. It couldn't be something like that is it?

I mentioned on the prior page the items 65 and 66 from the Deere illustration these are directional control cartridges for each line section (six total) that screw into the bottom of the diverter valve. Check those out if you will.

 

[Zebrafive]

Now that you say there is reaction from loader when you activate a rear SCV with the hydraulics diverted from the loader to the rear SCVs, that says the problem is in the diverter.

I would find out what parts are needed to pull it apart and clean everything. There may be a service kit or just a lot of O-Rings to buy.

I think you want 1/2" QCs not 3/4". You can get multiple types of threads (internal, external, NPT, 37* JIC, ORB, ORFS) for the QCs. I would get a female QC with external ORB or 37* JIC threads and a male QC that will thread right on. 37* JIC are same thread as ORB, just add an O-Ring.

The QCs used on my 640 loader have a black collar with a place to put your thumb (the feamle half) to make them easier to use.

You may (for the third on the loader) want to look into the MultiCoupler that uses a lever and cam system to hook up the hydraulics. I saw that set up on a JD 673 loader. The brand used by JD is Faster. Their website has a catalog of just multiCouplers.

 

[murphy1244]

Martain, keep plugging away. you got a steal of a deal on it.

 

[Martian]

I think I will be taking it to the dealer on Monday or Tuesday. I don't know what I'm doing. Like I've said, I'm rather new to all these hydraulics, and even newer to fixing them. If it weren't for you guys, I'd have probably had it back there already. I'll take a look at the 65 and 66, I'm out right now, so it won't be right away, though. I am hoping there's no need for a new diverter and be able to just be fixed otherwise. I would think it's a simple problem still (although possibly costly). I'm also thinking about calling the dealer where I got it and ask them WTF?!? And also see if they actually know what was wrong.


As far as the quick connects for the loader go, I would want the 3/4" because that's what I got in the back and if I ever needed to move a cylinder with the backhoe on, it would be much simpler and easier.

 

[jenkinsph]

Martian,
Recognize that the quick couplers on the front aux work with most other skidsteer attachments. Not sure I would change these to a different type. I know I have rented a front ssqa Bobcat hydraulic auger and it plugged right in.

good luck with the repairs and keep us informed.

 

[Martian]

Martian,
Recognize that the quick couplers on the front aux work with most other skidsteer attachments. Not sure I would change these to a different type. I know I have rented a front ssqa Bobcat hydraulic auger and it plugged right in.

good luck with the repairs and keep us informed.

Will do,

I don't plan to completely change the front couplers but have a coupler that plugs into each and 'converts' them to the 3/4" if you know what I mean. That way if I want the other set-up I can just disconnect it and have the normal, plug and have the easier set up to get on and off.