DEF going away ?

[deezler]

I assume you are laughing at my last sentence, that the DPF and SCR technology is reliable and robust, and that keeping our air clean is a good thing.

Obviously there have been several manufacturers and suppliers that have failed to do the proper engineering and validation testing to produce a reliable result over the lifetime of the truck or equipment. Definitely sucks for you if you happened to buy one of those vehicles, I get it.

But the rest of humanity doesn't really care about your opinion on the matter. And certainly our elected legislators predominantly do not either. Pollution controls on vehicles and equipment are here to stay, just the reality of it.

 

[John_Mc]

Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of coal rolling either when it's just for show boating , but it is a product of what happens when DPF filters and other BS EPA devices are removed or disabled, diesel trucks of old blew black smoke when you got heavy on the pedal just the way it is. The point I'm making is many diesel truck owners got sick of all the constant problems in the early years of DPF filters, DEF issues etc and did the same things to their trucks that you did to your tractor (which I am 100% in favor of) but what's good for you is also good for them, anything else could be considered hypocritical.

The guys around here who are "rolling coal" are definitely doing so intentionally. We're not talking about a little bit of black smoke from heavy acceleration. We are talking about a cloud of smoke so thick and black that if you are behind them, you can't see the truck - or even the road. In the wrong conditions (no wind) the cloud can hang there obliterating the view for a while. I've had it happen a couple of times when driving my tractor up our rural roads. A diesel truck will pass me. No smoke as they are accelerating to get around me, then as they are pulling back in, suddenly a dense black cloud erupts.

I've even had a high school kid proudly show me his set up for doing this. (I guess when he saw, Brutus, my antique truck, he assumed I would be into it.) Since he does not want to draw the attention of the sheriff, it's switched off most of the time. When he wants to roll coal, he flips a switch which dumps extra fuel into the mix, creating a dense black cloud.

They're called "tuners" and they're sold specifically to roll coal.

Exactly.

 

[4570Man]

Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of coal rolling either when it's just for show boating , but it is a product of what happens when DPF filters and other BS EPA devices are removed or disabled, diesel trucks of old blew black smoke when you got heavy on the pedal just the way it is. The point I'm making is many diesel truck owners got sick of all the constant problems in the early years of DPF filters, DEF issues etc and did the same things to their trucks that you did to your tractor (which I am 100% in favor of) but what's good for you is also good for them, anything else could be considered hypocritical.

Stock diesels don’t roll coal like we’re using the term. A little bit of black smoke yes but so much that they’re obscuring traffic no. My diesel truck still has the emissions equipment in tact but I know plenty of people with deleted trucks. If they drove by from a couple hundred feet away you couldn’t know the difference. They don’t smoke much without over fueling the engine.

 

[Hay Dude]

I assume you are laughing at my last sentence, that the DPF and SCR technology is reliable and robust, and that keeping our air clean is a good thing.

Obviously there have been several manufacturers and suppliers that have failed to do the proper engineering and validation testing to produce a reliable result over the lifetime of the truck or equipment. Definitely sucks for you if you happened to buy one of those vehicles, I get it.

But the rest of humanity doesn't really care about your opinion on the matter. And certainly our elected legislators predominantly do not either. Pollution controls on vehicles and equipment are here to stay, just the reality of it.

@ deezler,
Yeah, I’m definitely laughing at you for sure, as usual.
You have the right to your opinion, as silly as it is, but when you say “DPF and SCR technology is reliable and robust” you are simply Full of

It’s NOT reliable. It’s NOT robust, either. It leaves trucks & equipment stranded helplessly all over the country with failed sensors.

You don’t own/operate trucks and equipment on a commercial user basis, so get back in your 30HP tractor lane, and stop talking about things you have no knowledge of.

Truckers and operators of diesel equipment lose a lot of money, and frequently are unable to make deadlines for delivery because of failed sensors, frozen DEF, failed DEF pumps, and a whole host of other failures related to your “reliable and robust DPF & SCR technology”.

 

[Hay Dude]

We are not talking about 1975 Mack trucks. We are talking about newer model pickup trucks, usually jacked up, with tinted windows. 98% of these a-holes are doing it on purpose.

So there’s 2 different discussions going on here that are overlapping each other causing unnecessary disagreements.

1. Removing pollution control (cooled EGR, DPF or DEF) and replacing with a simple muffler will not cause “rolling coal”. It WILL make the vehicle more reliable and less expensive to own/operate.

2. Adding fuel via a tuner to a deleted (or also probably an undeleted) diesel truck will result in rolling coal, the degree of which depends on the amount of fuel added. It is pretty silly, environmentally irresponsible and illegal on the federal level and some states.

The simple act of doing a delete on a diesel vehicle does NOT mean rolling coal. It DOES mean lower overall cost of ownership since several pieces of failure-prone equipment are no longer attached to the vehicle.

 

[4570Man]

This is “rolling coal”. It’s a room temperature IQ thing to do and not the same thing as a working diesel by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[JTKub]

Truckers and operators of diesel equipment lose a lot of money, and frequently are unable to make deadlines for delivery because of failed sensors, frozen DEF, failed DEF pumps, and a whole host of other failures related to your “reliable and robust DPF & SCR technology”.

I would guess that 8 out 10 break downs with my employer's fleet of tanker trucks are emission system related. Our fleet runs 24/7/365 to keep our customer base supplied. When a breakdown occurs, a fleet service outfit has to be dispatched, which burns fuel. Often the broke down tractor trailer has to be towed back to our yard and another unit must double back to make the customer delivery, again, burning extra fuel. OTR tractors today are an absolute nightmare. I don't know how owner/operators could do it.

 

[Hay Dude]

I would guess that 8 out 10 break downs with my employer's fleet of tanker trucks are emission system related. Our fleet runs 24/7/365 to keep our customer base supplied. When a breakdown occurs, a fleet service outfit has to be dispatched, which burns fuel. Often the broke down tractor trailer has to be towed back to our yard and another unit must double back to make the customer delivery, again, burning extra fuel. OTR tractors today are an absolute nightmare. I don't know how owner/operators could do it.

Real “reliable and robust”, right????

Deezler????

 

[JTKub]

Real “reliable and robust”, right????

It's unbelievable really. Everything on them is geared for emissions control, right down to the fact that most of our OTR tractors are automatic transmission equipped, with the claim being, better for fuel economy, emissions control, etc. If it's not the emissions systems directly causing the breakdowns, it's the automatic transmissions!

 

[4570Man]

It's unbelievable really. Everything on them is geared for emissions control, right down to the fact that most of our OTR tractors are automatic transmission equipped, with the claim being, better for fuel economy, emissions control, etc. If it's not the emissions systems directly causing the breakdowns, it's the automatic transmissions!

You have to remember these aren’t owner operated trucks with 30 years experience. An automatic transmission truck is no doubt going to experience less maintenance cost with fleet drivers.