Delete DEF

[5030]

Wonder how long they last before the emissions police smack their pee-pee.

 

[DarkBlack]

Most dealers won’t take tractors with altered ROPs or emissions in trade. Because it’s illegal for them to resell them.

Where is it a federal law that says a dealer can’t resell a used trade in, that came in with a modified ROPs?
Maybe it exists. I’ve never seen it.

I’ve seen an OSHA regulation on ROPs used for employees, but nothing about the former, you speak of.

Technically, simply drilling a small hole for a light, results in a ROPs being considered modified. I see dealerships selling used equipment with lights added on.
I’m guessing it’s more a dealership choice. Any good dealership should at least offer the customer a price with a replacement ROP factored in.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Wonder how long they last before the emissions police smack their pee-pee.

Nothing. It basically falls on the owner he is the one that did it. Near as I can figure its like fire works in Wisconsin you can buy, them sell them, but its illegal to launch them. I would be more worried about the government getting his shipping records.

 

[Fixastuff]

I bought a traded in deleted truck from a dealer once. They bought it from the person then added all the stuff back on to make it legal. It’s crazy the bs some people say.

 

[spitter]

It is not illegal to delete emission equipment on personal vehicles or equipment that is used on private property.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

Near as I can figure you need to make it look like that. The emulator box or what ever you want to call it plugs in and duplicates the DPF. I do not think you would know the dpf has been bypassed when you plug in with a diagnostic software. Or you would have to be specifically looking at the DPF reading and know what your looking for.

It isn't broke yet, be nice if I could get one of those that has failed, core it out and try it.

The dealer isn't going to know.

If you install an o2 sensor spacer on the down stream o2 sensor on your car the engine ECU thinks the convertor is still there. You can't tell on a diagnostic tool with the auto software I have been using on our older GMs anyway. So I don't think it would be any different with Kubota's software.

90 Degree O2 Oxygen Sensor Spacer Engine Light CEL Check Bung Mini Catalytic Converter

Product Overview:1.Built-in M18 x 1.5 Mini Catalytic Converter helps eliminate check engine lights caused by aftermarket exhaust modifications or catalytic converter removal.2.90-Degree Angled Design provides improved clearance in tight engine bays, helping prevent interference issues that can...

velocitytitan.com

One of these.

I also wonder if the same thing would work here? or idea anyway.

 

[MHarryE]

Where is it a federal law that says a dealer can’t resell a used trade in, that came in with a modified ROPs?
Maybe it exists. I’ve never seen it.

I’ve seen an OSHA regulation on ROPs used for employees, but nothing about the former, you speak of.

Technically, simply drilling a small hole for a light, results in a ROPs being considered modified. I see dealerships selling used equipment with lights added on.
I’m guessing it’s more a dealership choice. Any good dealership should at least offer the customer a price with a replacement ROP factored in.

Not USA but Australia. Japanese customer had 5 machines mo longer meeting emissions laws in Japan (much tougher than US law) so sold to Australians. Australians looked at machines upon receipt and found holes drilled in ROPS several places for clamping air conditioner hoses (not then factory supplied so customers went to aftermarket). They contacted me about permission to have holes drilled in ROPS. That’s bad, but I asked our ROPS supplier who said no, not without complete certification. So I worked out a deal for the Japanese to be supplied 5 new cabs at cost, shipped to Australia, so machines could go on a job site. But that’s all commercial business. You can do anything you want to your machine but try selling it modified against regulations and it can bite you in the ass. Witness the delete firms fined hundreds of millions of dollars for selling delete kits.

 

[LouNY]

View attachment 881739
Near as I can figure you need to make it look like that. The emulator box or what ever you want to call it plugs in and duplicates the DPF. I do not think you would know the dpf has been bypassed when you plug in with a diagnostic software. Or you would have to be specifically looking at the DPF reading and know what your looking for.

It isn't broke yet, be nice if I could get one of those that has failed, core it out and try it.

The dealer isn't going to know.

If you install an o2 sensor spacer on the down stream o2 sensor on your car the engine ECU thinks the convertor is still there. You can't tell on a diagnostic tool with the auto software I have been using on our older GMs anyway. So I don't think it would be any different with Kubota's software.

90 Degree O2 Oxygen Sensor Spacer Engine Light CEL Check Bung Mini Catalytic Converter

Product Overview:1.Built-in M18 x 1.5 Mini Catalytic Converter helps eliminate check engine lights caused by aftermarket exhaust modifications or catalytic converter removal.2.90-Degree Angled Design provides improved clearance in tight engine bays, helping prevent interference issues that can...

velocitytitan.com

One of these.

I also wonder if the same thing would work here? or idea anyway.

From what I have seen most DPFs have a differential pressure sensor which monitors the restriction in the filter and a temperature sensor to monitor the regeneration temperatures.
If a person searches for DPF emulator several options will show up.

 

[BlueKnife]

Keep in mind that if you do any 'delete' on any EPA compliant tractor, it's yours forever, you cannot trade it in as no dealer will accept a deleted unit on trade so if you do, plan on keeping it forever. You could sell it via private sale but that won't relieve you of any liability should the subsequent owner decide to trade it in.. They will come right back on you for selling under false pretenses.

If the seller informs the buyer that it has been deleted, then there would be no false pretenses, no?

 

[5030]

Not referring to a private sale only a trade in through a dealer.

 

[5030]

Candidly, none of it applies to my units as they are both pre 4 as in no emissions controls.

 

[BlueKnife]

Not referring to a private sale only a trade in through a dealer.

Wouldn't the same apply though? Might be harder to sell or trade in to a dealer I suppose, but if it's disclosed, I don't see where there'd be any liability. Personally, I would never consider trading anything in to a dealer, unless I was absolutely desperate, regardless of the status of the machine's emissions system.

 

[Dman1981]

How green can you be without being green
Shows up here

 

[5030]

I'm not 'Green' at all, never have been either. In my view, being 'Green' raises the price of admission on everything so I'm not. Being green also makes things more complex.

 

[LouNY]

How green can you be without being green
Shows up here

Being "green" has never been any part of my life and I expect that to continue. I believe in making the best use of the materials and processes at hand and not getting sucked in by hype and bull.
As far as green colored equipment never been especially impressed by that either, always preferred red.

 

[Hay Dude]

It's morons btw and I agree 100% Of course I have no issues with deleting anything because all my tractors as well as my pickup truck are / is pre 4 mandate. One less worry for me.

Not sure “it’s one less thing to worry about”.

There have been states where Pre-Tier 4 equipment is mandated out. I bought a great backhoe from California cheap because it was no longer CA emissions compliant.

So there’s always the “worry” that some greenie gubmit takes over YOUR state and makes your vaunted pre 4 stuff illegal.

 

[Dman1981]

Not sure “it’s one less thing to worry about”.

There have been states where Pre-Tier 4 equipment is mandated out. I bought a great backhoe from California cheap because it was no longer CA emissions compliant.

So there’s always the “worry” that some greenie gubmit takes over YOUR state and makes your vaunted pre 4 stuff illegal.

As long as you do not give it to them they won't take it not without a fight anyway
I live in ca the fight is always on
Just way outnumbered

 

[MHarryE]

I may have mentioned it before that in Japan, they give you 2 years to get rid of equipment before you can no longer use it on sites contracted by MOT or MOC - transportation or building sites. Nobody going farm to farm but highway - get caught and your billion yen contract becomes void. Oh, my BIL is 2 years younger than me, uses old tractors, is on oxygen 24/7. My tractors have always been current emissions compliant because I hate fumes. And my father - had to quit farming and find new work at 54 in part due to a TD-6 International that had to be the sootiest diesel I’ve ever seen. Never smoked in his life but doc sad had lungs of 3 pack a day smoker.

 

[truckdiagnostics]

When we imply that all emission controls put on an engine "really" lower the over all emission output into said in environment I think is rather disingenuous. Anymore than saying, all emission controls on an engine are bad and they should "all" be removed.

I am of the opinion "any type" of exhaust aftertreatment is dumb. The horse is already out of the barn what is the point. It is my opinion exhaust after treatment just gets the OEM over the test hurdle.

With that said I don't think I am killing anyone or really "adding anymore" pollutants into the environment by removing the exhaust aftertreatment. So I sleep just fine at night.

I am speaking of just exhaust after treatment. If an exhaust after treatment delete is done correctly I don't see how a dealer will know or care unless they are looking closely. Its down stream, horse is out of the barn, it doesn't effect them. IMO if they are using or going to use a good aftertreatment delete for a reason not to work on your engine, let alone your entire tractor, they don't want your money.

This holds true when the engine is running correctly. When an engine wears out, burning more oil. Removing the aftertreatment will allow it to stay on the road and smoke like crazy. Where if you put the aftertreatment on, it will just keep plugging up. Therefore, getting those vehicles off the road? I still think aftertreatment is dumb Fix your engine and stop punishing the rest of us.

 

[BlueKnife]

My tractors have always been current emissions compliant because I hate fumes.

I'm no fan of fumes either but my experience has been the opposite. The fumes from newer tractors give me a headache. No idea why.