Dented Hood

[ray66v]

You must admit as the pro that you are and the experience you have, paint and materials have come a long, long way since the seventies. As far as I know I don't even think lacquer is used anymore?

Yes, EPA VOC regulations have eliminated the use of lacquer for auto repairs. By about 2000, it was pretty much phased out. I doubt I would use very much of it, even if I could get it. Paint companies were eager to phase it out, because they urethane systems they replaced it, with were much more profitable for them.

With urethane, you can spray it, force dry it in the oven for 30 minutes, un-mask it, and almost immediately re-assemble it. Provided you can master putting the paint on nicely, and getting clean paint jobs. That kind of production leads to good potential for profit. About 95% of shops don't even try to do repairs, without automatically planning to sand, and buff the repair. This is because, they have been convinced, and will argue, it can't be done any other way.

I have zero interest in sanding and buffing anything, (been there and done that), so it is imperative that I paint it, so I don't have to.

Of course, everyone needs to find what works well for them, with the equipment, and shop they have. But then, they should be ready, and willing to adapt those procedures with the times, as vehicles and materials evolve.

There is always a better way to do things, and unwillingness to accept that, is a common costly mistake.

BTW: I'd pay the $250 and get it fixed. You can't fix it properly yourself, for less than that anyway.

No point in paying for insurance, and not using it.

 

[rScotty]

Turn it over and straighten as much as possible, light appears to be functional so that would stay.

My 2 cents.

Gregg

I think I'd take the middle ground as well. It's a new toy, and the only thing worse than putting the first dents in a new toy is living with the fear of getting the first few dents and scratches in the new toy. But there's a limit, and your picture shows a dent that is just slightly too large. Plus, it would bother me - same as you - to just do nothing.....

So....Here's what I'd do if it were mine. First of all, I'd use it as an excuse to get together with a buddy I haven't seen enough of lately. You guys then take the hood off - that's about all the mechanic work you need to do. The main challenge there will be undoing those puzzling clips that connect the wires. I use a little blade and a magnifying glass on those. Now turn it over onto a soft surface and carefully straighten as much as you can without stretching or denting the metal. Anything will be a little better. With luck, most of that type of dent will pop out with some judicious pushing and very little hammering with a rubber hammer. So if you are real lucky you can push them out with minimal pounding or none. That's when you step back and say that's about where we either decide good enough or else begin to go real slow. If you stop in time I'm betting you won't even need to repaint. Yes, of course you'll still see the dent, but it will be much smaller. Oh....welll....ok....You might need a bottle of touch-up paint. Might as well have that on hand when you start. About $20.

The exception to the basic "pushing and bonking the dent from the back to reduce it" is that you may want to be a bit more aggressive on getting any of those hidden flange lines as straight as you can - again without stretching the metal...but using pliers is OK there where you won't see the marks. I see one of those nasty flange bends right under the headlight mount and unfortunately it has a sharp bend. That means the metal is stretched there, so it won't go back to flat.....but it looks like you can reverse that bend in the flange so the bent projection faces inside. Then the headlight would mount nice and flat covering that bend and you wouldn't even see the dent when the headlight is mounted.

The headlight itself looks OK to me. I'd clean it up and maybe use some plastic glue if necessary if there is a break....mostly you want to keep the water from getting in. This works surprisingly well for automotive tail lights as well. By the time you do two or three you can make that type of repair quite nicely

At least if you do these type of middle ground repairs the tractor has had some civilized attention and might even know that you care about it. And your own anxiety about the NEXT DENT is proportionately lessened.

It's even better if you can share the whole thing with a friend. Make it about a 3 hr job - that should be plenty with time to chat.
Luck, rScotty.

 

[nc redneck]

ray66v is 100% correct and giving you current 2014 advice. Collision repair and paint technology has advanced a lot from the 70s. Only 2 things I could add. Most large production shops at least on East Coast use a water based paint. It is the same product sprayed on new OEM cars and trucks made in the USA, not sure about other countries.
I think you have a good option of PDR, Paintless Dent Repair. There are international companies that do this and go world wide following the hail trail as they call it. If your paint is not broken or chipped this is what a good PDR repair guy would call a gravy job. Plus it will not require refinishing the inside of hood. The quality or skills of PDR guy is very important. The best will provide for local car dealers and for the international PDR companies.
When a hail storm hits someplace they fly in 25 to 30 techs, rent a large warehouse drop a tractor trailer of equipment and go to work 10 to 12 hours a day. Very amazing what these guys do.
Below is a picture sent to me by friend who works for major insurance company catastrophe team. This is the kind of stuff they can fix.
Scott

 

[WaxMan]

I don't think the truck in that picture is a candidate for Paint less Dent Repair.
While I'm sure any of those dents can be removed that way. That vehicle just has too many to be cost effective.

 

[nc redneck]

According to my friend who has been doing this for well over 30 years, 10 on Cat Team. About 30 to 40 dents is max for a hood or deck lid. Bolt on and off panel $ 1200 to $ 1700 depending on cost of panel, labor and paint inside and out. A QP or Roof is a complete different thing. It can easlly go over 4 to 8 k. I like ray66v have a lot of experience in repairing damaged vehicles back to oem condition and none of it is cheap.
I find what good PDR people can do hard to believe also.
But trust me on one thing Insurance Companies are by far the best business people in the world. If they can get a 5 K job done for $ 3000.00 they will encourage and promote and mandate it until it becomes the standard.

 

[WaxMan]

Oh I totally see your point. I'm sure that is what's done.
My only concern as a customer if that was my truck in your picture, its black, the amount of dents large and small on those panels means the original support of those panels will never be as new. They may be pushed out at the time and look great but After a year once the insurance paid the bill and I have no recourse. I would find it hard to believe those black panels in the hot sun and cold winters that those panels won't distort somewhat after that enormous amount of reconstruction the panels went thru.
I would insist the truck be totaled or the panels replaced. Or a lifetime warranty. Yes it's more work and money to replace the panels but they won't distort down the road.

It's Black, my fear would be nothing but ripples apearing in certain light. Your in auto body repair, ray66v is or was in auto body repair and so was I. I think you see my point. Sometimes bodymen can see things on a panel others may not notice. If you know what I mean. I would not want to be walking up to my truck in a parking lot and see the side of my black truck moving as I walk.

 

[ray66v]

Most large production shops at least on East Coast use a water based paint. View attachment 381868

They are using water based base coats, (color coats), here. And a lot of shops have been for 3-5 years.

I tried the early versions of them, the biggest complaint I have, is you can not tell what the color looks like at all, until you clear it. Which really slows down the process when you are tinting them, to match a color.

I do not know of a shop that is using water based clear yet. But, we do not have kind of the restrictions on VOC's here, that they have in California.

The last time I discussed waterborne clear with my contacts in R&D, they told me they have been working on it, but they are not yet able to get them to dry fast enough for production shops.

 

[Kenneth in Texas]

Oh my Id sell and get a new tractor :laughing:

Seriously if it was me Id just but another hood and be done with it OR like some have said here find a cheapo body shop and let them fix it.

 

[ray66v]

Sometimes bodymen can see things on a panel others may not notice.

We have to be able to do that, because some customers can see it to.

I commonly pointed out damage, during an estimate, to a customer who could not see it, no matter how hard I tried to show it to them. :confused3:

The only way you can do paintless dent repair that is nearly flawless, is to finish it by block sanding the clear, to remove the final ripples, and buff it. If you get a vehicle with enough clear on it, it is easier to do a really good PDR.

This can sometimes make the repair noticeable another way, by removing texture in the clear coat, if it was not applied smoothly.

And, it can result in having to paint it anyway, if you go end up going through the clear.

 

[Coyote machine]

It's a TRACTOR hood, not the Ferrari orange I saw on one at the Monte Carlo Casino when recently there. PDR could work nicely on this tractor's hood. Done and done, quick and cheap. Contact a local dealer who has access to PDR and inquire. :confused3:

 

[not2old]

I've dropped firewood off the back of my loader onto the hood three times. The first one hurt as my GC2610 was only a week old. I felt better after the second one as I hadn't wasted my money fixing the first one. After the third time, all within a few months, who cares?

 

[Kenneth in Texas]

ray66v is 100% correct and giving you current 2014 advice. Collision repair and paint technology has advanced a lot from the 70s. Only 2 things I could add. Most large production shops at least on East Coast use a water based paint. It is the same product sprayed on new OEM cars and trucks made in the USA, not sure about other countries.
I think you have a good option of PDR, Paintless Dent Repair. There are international companies that do this and go world wide following the hail trail as they call it. If your paint is not broken or chipped this is what a good PDR repair guy would call a gravy job. Plus it will not require refinishing the inside of hood. The quality or skills of PDR guy is very important. The best will provide for local car dealers and for the international PDR companies.
When a hail storm hits someplace they fly in 25 to 30 techs, rent a large warehouse drop a tractor trailer of equipment and go to work 10 to 12 hours a day. Very amazing what these guys do.
Below is a picture sent to me by friend who works for major insurance company catastrophe team. This is the kind of stuff they can fix.
Scott

View attachment 381868

i sure would like to see what that truck looks like after PDR

 

[ray66v]

It's a TRACTOR hood, not the Ferrari orange I saw on one at the Monte Carlo Casino when recently there. PDR could work nicely on this tractor's hood. Done and done, quick and cheap. Contact a local dealer who has access to PDR and inquire. :confused3:

Except PDR isn't cheap. And, neither is the headlight.

Say he gets a guy to do a basic PDR for $150, and I am guessing the headlight is around $100. That's $250.

The deductible for his insurance is $250, that gets him everything brand new. Get anywhere near that figure, and it's not worth it to do anything else.

 

[sbatzold]

My father and I, owned and operated a large body repair shop, for well over 20 years, and did I the work everyday for 34 years.

I have repaired in excess of 20,000 vehicles, in my career.

QUOTE]
I'm not doubting your good, but if my math is right, 20,000 cars /34 years is= 588 cars a year/365=1.5 cars a day if you worked everyday for that 34 years. Is that doable, yes I guess it could be.

 

[ray66v]

My father and I, owned and operated a large body repair shop, for well over 20 years, and did I the work everyday for 34 years.

I have repaired in excess of 20,000 vehicles, in my career.

QUOTE]
I'm not doubting your good, but if my math is right, 20,000 cars /34 years is= 588 cars a year/365=1.5 cars a day if you worked everyday for that 34 years. Is that doable, yes I guess it could be.

Yes, it seems as though you are doubting. I guess you also think I am stupid enough to put up a number I can't back up.

For some of that, especially the last 10 years, I was doing mostly painting. For the last 10 years I ordinarily painted between 3-5 different jobs in a day.

Before you question that, not everything is a big job. Typically, two of those may be bumpers, one or two may be a hood, bumper, and fender, and one may be an entire front, or rear end of a car.

We developed an advanced assembly line style system, where all parts that were being replaced, were painted off the car. There were times when we were really busy, I would have to put 3 different jobs, of 3 different colors, in the booth at the same time.

I had a helper who did prep work for me. And, we did between 150-200 flat rate hours of paint work per week. That was inside of a regular 40 hour work week. Which is something that anyone who has tried to do, will will tell you is nearly impossible. Even doing crap work.

Everything has to go perfectly. The second the oven shuts off, another job has to go in the booth, and get painted. Then, on to the next one.

I could not make any mistakes. Every job had to come out right the first time, or there was a train wreck, as things backed up. It was VERY stressful.

 

[KTAC]

Swatter... If you have Kubota insurance (KTAC), we will cover the damage and get you a new hood and pay for transportation. All you pay is the $250 deductible. Our average claim time is less than 2 days so you will have your tractor back in time for the weekend (as long as the dealer can do the repair quickly). If you're not sure if you have our insurance, send me an email at brian.carter@kubota.com and I will check for you. :thumbsup:

 

[sbatzold]

Yes, it seems as though you are doubting. I guess you also think I am stupid enough to put up a number I can't back up.

For some of that, especially the last 10 years, I was doing mostly painting. For the last 10 years I ordinarily painted between 3-5 different jobs in a day.

Before you question that, not everything is a big job. Typically, two of those may be bumpers, one or two may be a hood, bumper, and fender, and one may be an entire front, or rear end of a car.

We developed an advanced assembly line style system, where all parts that were being replaced, were painted off the car. There were times when we were really busy, I would have to put 3 different jobs, of 3 different colors, in the booth at the same time.

I had a helper who did prep work for me. And, we did between 150-200 flat rate hours of paint work per week. That was inside of a regular 40 hour work week. Which is something that anyone who has tried to do, will will tell you is nearly impossible. Even doing crap work.

Everything has to go perfectly. The second the oven shuts off, another job has to go in the booth, and get painted. Then, on to the next one.

I could not make any mistakes. Every job had to come out right the first time, or there was a train wreck, as things backed up. It was VERY stressful.

Ok, this clears it up some, you said repair so I thought you were doing hammer work, filling, sanding and painting. If all you did was shoot the paint on most of the jobs I can see it happening.

 

[ray66v]

Ok, this clears it up some, you said repair so I thought you were doing If all you did was shoot the paint on most of the jobs I can see it happening.

During the first 24 years, I did the entire repair job, that would include: "hammer work, filling, sanding and painting." As well as, frame repairs, welding, electrical, and air conditioning recharging.

I mostly painted the last 10 years. But, that wasn't all I did. I did my share of straightening, & filling.

I did body work, when the body shop fell behind, and I ran me out of things to paint.

Some jobs, like bumper repairs, and minor scratch repairs, were usually done completely in the paint shop.

If a technician was not good at a particular operation, such as hammering on a door skin, I sometimes did that for them.

It's also not uncommon for new parts to have minor damage, that needed to be repaired. I usually did that.

Everyone was expected to do what ever it took to get the work done.

 

[The Fred]

I think I'd take the middle ground as well. It's a new toy, and the only thing worse than putting the first dents in a new toy is living with the fear of getting the first few dents and scratches in the new toy. But there's a limit, and your picture shows a dent that is just slightly too large. Plus, it would bother me - same as you - to just do nothing.....

So....Here's what I'd do if it were mine. First of all, I'd use it as an excuse to get together with a buddy I haven't seen enough of lately. You guys then take the hood off - that's about all the mechanic work you need to do. The main challenge there will be undoing those puzzling clips that connect the wires. I use a little blade and a magnifying glass on those. Now turn it over onto a soft surface and carefully straighten as much as you can without stretching or denting the metal. Anything will be a little better. With luck, most of that type of dent will pop out with some judicious pushing and very little hammering with a rubber hammer. So if you are real lucky you can push them out with minimal pounding or none. That's when you step back and say that's about where we either decide good enough or else begin to go real slow. If you stop in time I'm betting you won't even need to repaint. Yes, of course you'll still see the dent, but it will be much smaller. Oh....welll....ok....You might need a bottle of touch-up paint. Might as well have that on hand when you start. About $20.

The exception to the basic "pushing and bonking the dent from the back to reduce it" is that you may want to be a bit more aggressive on getting any of those hidden flange lines as straight as you can - again without stretching the metal...but using pliers is OK there where you won't see the marks. I see one of those nasty flange bends right under the headlight mount and unfortunately it has a sharp bend. That means the metal is stretched there, so it won't go back to flat.....but it looks like you can reverse that bend in the flange so the bent projection faces inside. Then the headlight would mount nice and flat covering that bend and you wouldn't even see the dent when the headlight is mounted.

The headlight itself looks OK to me. I'd clean it up and maybe use some plastic glue if necessary if there is a break....mostly you want to keep the water from getting in. This works surprisingly well for automotive tail lights as well. By the time you do two or three you can make that type of repair quite nicely

At least if you do these type of middle ground repairs the tractor has had some civilized attention and might even know that you care about it. And your own anxiety about the NEXT DENT is proportionately lessened.

It's even better if you can share the whole thing with a friend. Make it about a 3 hr job - that should be plenty with time to chat.
Luck, rScotty.

EXCELLENT advice for me. Get together with a friend and tear it apart, drink some beers, hammer it out, drink some beers, eat pizza, sand it, drink some beers, prime it, drink some beers, paint it.......

Drink some beers and talk about how good it looks, drink some beers and go to bed.

Get up in the morning and buff the mosquitos out of the new paint then swear that you and your buddy are never getting together again for beers.


If you have the insurance use it. If not leave it, now with a dent in the hood you will use that tractor the way it's supposed to be used. Beat it and beat it hard.

Fred

 

[ultrarunner]

I've always grown up in an Insurance Claim adverse family...

There was a time when the family business almost closed... not because of any claims... just because of location.

How does a company like KTAC view claims?