Depression

[ultrarunner]

It is good for security.

Now how about those European trains!

There has not been significant track laid in the U.S. of A. since WWII.

Train travel continues to fall in Western Europe... the trains don't even stop at some of the smaller stations anymore...

I was with a group of students returning from Vienna to Denmark... the cost to go by train was more than double that of going by air and the train trip required the better part of a day...

 

[alchemysa]

As an aside, very few US businesses compete with China these days - look at the stats of manufacturing as a proportion of the US economy. Its already long gone.

Thats a pretty sweeping statement. Detroit might disagree.

What's stuck me lately is how the Chinese are really chasing the small, low volume, short run jobs that have traditionally always been done by very small (almost cottage size) industries in the US. These little businesses probably barely even register as 'manufacturers' and perhaps never thought China could be cost competitive for such small runs. I'm thinking particularly of moulded plastic stuff.

Anyway, we are ALL competing with China everyday now, for the fuel we use.

 

[SPYDERLK]

lot of wisdom above. World would probably be a better place if tractor owners had more voice

Two things on electric cars - the battery technology is the hangup currently, and it will take money to solve it. I beleive it can be done now that the will is out there - at cheap gas it cost to much and provided too little. People need an incentive to trade in their hummer.

Secondly, there is plenty of power in the grid for electric cars - just requires a scheme to get them charged at night - off peak pricing has been proposed. Currently the grid is really stressed on peak days, but nights is well under capacity.

Once you have taken a hard look at this sweeping statement you will not be able to support it. Car use is prevalent among the entire population whereas energy hungry electrical appliances are not. Even the guy that uses 1kwhr a day in his tiny apartment for a small fridge and lights, uses several kwhrs a day doing errands or going to and from work in his car. Keep in mind that just running a car at a steady 40mph for 10 minutes will use about 1kwhr of energy at point of use. Thats with no acceleration or lights or AC or heat. Crank in charging and storage inefficiencies and the supply side problems are shown even more vividly. Then of course there are the many that would use more than ten kwhrs per day commuting without heat or AC.
You start making transportation demand on grid electricity universal and the current grid will overload.
larry

 

[N80]

I still don't think the condition of the current power grid is a valid argument against electric cars. If everyone got an electric car tomorrow then it might be an issue. But that's not the way its going to happen and never the way any major economic/infrastructure changes take place.

The change would be gradual and the grid would either keep pace or the electric car market would die. The latter would be an unfortunate thing to let happen in my opinion.

 

[scott_vt]

I still don't think the condition of the current power grid is a valid argument against electric cars. If everyone got an electric car tomorrow then it might be an issue. But that's not the way its going to happen and never the way any major economic/infrastructure changes take place.

The change would be gradual and the grid would either keep pace or the electric car market would die. The latter would be an unfortunate thing to let happen in my opinion.

Afternoon George,
Very good point and lets not forget the fact that inhancements in electric generation, whether that be solar or otherwise, could potentially release the constraints of our present infrastructure as we know it today !

 

[Bird]

I was just reading what you guys were saying about electicity when mine went off here. It came back on after 45 minutes, but had me worried a bit. The good news was that we got a very small shower this morning, so the temperature is only 86 this afternoon instead of being up in the 90s. I don't know what happened with the power company, but my wife had gone to Walmart, about 2 miles from home, for a couple of grocery items, so I called her on the cell phone to tell her to not rush home with stuff that needed to go in the refrigerator and found Walmart's power was off, too.

 

[Soundguy]

One power co. in our city will drop power if the sky even clouds up!

soundguy

 

[MicroPilot]

What's with the doom and gloom about the power grid? Why aren't the electric co.s doing something about it? Every so often I'll see an article about the power grid being overworked, threatening rolling blackouts, and brownouts, etc. Isn't the electric grid just a capitol cost of business expense for the electric companies? Are they waiting for the gubberment to finance the upgrading the the infrastructure required for them to sell their product? I know it will be an expense for the companies, but I would venture to say that they are always certain to make money. They need to spend some of it to keep making money.

Instead of complaining about the grid the electric companies need to fix the grid.

 

[N80]

Instead of complaining about the grid the electric companies need to fix the grid.

Amen. And Duke Power is doing just that. They're starting on the first new nuke plant to be built in years.

 

[Charlesaf3]

Thats a pretty sweeping statement. Detroit might disagree.

What's stuck me lately is how the Chinese are really chasing the small, low volume, short run jobs that have traditionally always been done by very small (almost cottage size) industries in the US. These little businesses probably barely even register as 'manufacturers' and perhaps never thought China could be cost competitive for such small runs. I'm thinking particularly of moulded plastic stuff.

Anyway, we are ALL competing with China everyday now, for the fuel we use.

I'm sure detroit would disagree with their own impact, but the data remains the data. Google it.

Most of the problem with electrical infrastructure is NIMBYism. We also need to change generation and add a lot more nukes. Both are as doable as switching from gas lighting to electrical lighting, which also stretched the infrastructure of the time. Or building the gasoline delivery infrastructure, which is much more complex

 

[MicroPilot]

Amen. And Duke Power is doing just that. They're starting on the first new nuke plant to be built in years.

While generating capacity has to be increased and is part of the "grid", it's my understanding that the major problem is in the aging transmission system, and that there isn't enough capacity in the transmission system to handle much more power from new plants.

 

[riptides]

While generating capacity has to be increased and is part of the "grid", it's my understanding that the major problem is in the aging transmission system, and that there isn't enough capacity in the transmission system to handle much more power from new plants.

Really? I always thought it was time, demand and the cost of generation that was the issue.

When demand peaks, new plants are brought on-line, but due to the nature of the grid, it takes a while to 1 - fire the plant up, 2 - provide capacity.

The first step is an issue.

What type of plant? Where? Plant capacity? Staffing, cost and run-time all factor into your cost of electricity.

 

[N80]

While generating capacity has to be increased and is part of the "grid", it's my understanding that the major problem is in the aging transmission system, and that there isn't enough capacity in the transmission system to handle much more power from new plants.

That would likely be a regional thing. Growth and housing (even now) are booming in this area. New infrastructure going in all the time.

Even so, if you need to move more stuff (water, electrons, whatever) you build bigger pipes. Certainly seems more palatable than continued dependance on the middle east, and for the greenies, more palatable than bothering the penguins, polar bears and caribou.

 

[dmccarty]

Even so, if you need to move more stuff (water, electrons, whatever) you build bigger pipes. Certainly seems more palatable than continued dependance on the middle east, and for the greenies, more palatable than bothering the penguins, polar bears and caribou.

We have a nuke that provides must of the power for our area and the greenies have protests against this plant every few months for years. If Progress wanted to put in a generation station using coal, oil or gas they would protest. I would guess if wind power was possible they would protest as well.

Later,
Dan

 

[N80]

They have protested wind already. Its ugly, noisy and kills birds. Most greenies simply need a physics lesson.....no....just a simple life lesson...which is that there is no free lunch and you don't get something for nothing. I suspect most of us learned those lessons as children.

But deep down, I don't really think they are that naive. I think 75 years ago they would have been called anarchists. They are interested in bucking the system. All they want is a change. What the change is, and what the consequences are is irrelevent to them. Whatever is the status quo, even if it is good, is what they want to defeat. And as more and more people realize this, the more irrelevant the greenies will become.

 

[Skerby]

We are not headed for a depression. We are headed for an awakening.

This nation was built on the backs of farmers... on grit, work ethic and determination...

I thought this nation was built on slavery and child labour for centuries? And now, WELCOME the 'global economy' where we have products built in countries that have human rights exploitations and air quality standards that are lower than a snake's belly in a wagon rut!

global economy says if you want a job in manufacturing, move to china and india to work lets bail out the us auto industry so we can finance cheap labour operations in developing countries while fluffing up the american managerial elite's compensation...

 

[ToadHill]

Kills Birds! Have you ever seen one of those things, the blades move so slowly that any bird that lets it hit them should be ashamed. If they fly that slow I'm going to take up bird hunting because even I could hit them.

 

[czechsonofagun]

I thought this nation was built on slavery and child labour for centuries?

And what nation was not?

 

[N80]

And what nation was not?

Well, we should not forget that slaves and children typically do not build a nation of their own accord. Someone has to have the power, foresight, will and lack of ethics to subjugate, organize and motivate them.

But lest we go too far down the road of historical revisionism and bashing of dead white males, it is true that in large part, this nation was built on the backs and with the minds of some great people and that agriculture was at the heart of it.