DF-354 Dongfeng Tractor Hydraulic Problem

[Soundguy]

Yep.. once you get enough 'standards'.. nothing is standard anymore.

That worldwide standard you speak of.. now that would be very nice.... though i doubt it will happen.. ho-hum...

Soundguy

 

[lp15404]

I received the gear pump from Ranch Hand Supply in Virginia today. The pump looked the same as my pump on the DF354 except that the front plate on my pump was rectangular and extended past the edges of the pump. My pump mounts to the engine assemby with four bolts on the corners of the front plate.
The Jinma pump mounts with two bolts that go all the way though the pump and screws into the engine mount.

I looked at the CBT-E316 pump that my dealer sent me. I thought when I first received it that it could not fit my tractor, but after looking again, I saw that it would indeed fit although there are some differences. When I first looked at my pump I thought that the mount was square, but later I saw that it is rectangular and if I turned the pump 90 degrees, it would mount on the housing.

I removed my pump and installed the CBT-E316 pump. When I took my pump off the tractor, the gasket separated into many pieces. The pump from the dealer did not have a gasket, but I decided that I really did not need one since I did not see any oil around the shaft of the pump when I removed the old one. The new pump flange that mounts to the tractor was not nearly as thick as the old CBN-E314 pump that I removed. I had to find some washers to put on the bolts so that I could tighten the bolts into the housing.

After I got the new pump installed, I drained all of the hydraulic fluid ( 7 gallons ) from the gearbox and refilled it with new fluid. I started the tractor up and checked for leaks. Everything seemed to be ok. I did not see any leaks, and the front end loader appeared to be working ok. It took a while for the power steering to start working, but it did begin working ok. I pulled the tractor into my shed and I decided to check for leaks one more time, and all of a sudden oil started gushing from underneath the engine. I turned off the engine and saw that the oil was coming from the overflow hose on top of the engine. I checked the oil level in the engine and it was full to the top of the stick. Apparently the new pump that I put on the tractor from the dealer has a bad seal and the fluid hydraulic fluid is going back into the engine.

If I did not have bad luck, I would have no luck at all.

 

[Soundguy]

Hmmm... New pump with bad seal?? maybee... OR.. you did not fix the problem, and the pump was deadheading, and then blew the seal. Since you said the ps was not working.. I'd bet the leak problem is int hat section of the system...

Soundguy

I received the gear pump from Ranch Hand Supply in Virginia today. The pump looked the same as my pump on the DF354 except that the front plate on my pump was rectangular and extended past the edges of the pump. My pump mounts to the engine assemby with four bolts on the corners of the front plate.
The Jinma pump mounts with two bolts that go all the way though the pump and screws into the engine mount.

I looked at the CBT-E316 pump that my dealer sent me. I thought when I first received it that it could not fit my tractor, but after looking again, I saw that it would indeed fit although there are some differences. When I first looked at my pump I thought that the mount was square, but later I saw that it is rectangular and if I turned the pump 90 degrees, it would mount on the housing.

I removed my pump and installed the CBT-E316 pump. When I took my pump off the tractor, the gasket separated into many pieces. The pump from the dealer did not have a gasket, but I decided that I really did not need one since I did not see any oil around the shaft of the pump when I removed the old one. The new pump flange that mounts to the tractor was not nearly as thick as the old CBN-E314 pump that I removed. I had to find some washers to put on the bolts so that I could tighten the bolts into the housing.

After I got the new pump installed, I drained all of the hydraulic fluid ( 7 gallons ) from the gearbox and refilled it with new fluid. I started the tractor up and checked for leaks. Everything seemed to be ok. I did not see any leaks, and the front end loader appeared to be working ok. It took a while for the power steering to start working, but it did begin working ok. I pulled the tractor into my shed and I decided to check for leaks one more time, and all of a sudden oil started gushing from underneath the engine. I turned off the engine and saw that the oil was coming from the overflow hose on top of the engine. I checked the oil level in the engine and it was full to the top of the stick. Apparently the new pump that I put on the tractor from the dealer has a bad seal and the fluid hydraulic fluid is going back into the engine.

If I did not have bad luck, I would have no luck at all.

 

[DwayneB]

If I did not have bad luck, I would have no luck at all.

Man, sounds like my luck sometimes. I've heard that one of those pumps needs an adapter to fit. Even on a Jinma. Hate to see you out money but you will get it. Does sound like you still have a flow probem.

 

[JohnS]

It is highly likely that the deadhead is still occuring and that is what caused the seal to blow. The seal blowing is much more common than the pump overheating. As far as the gasket, it sounds like a paper or cork type. Should be easy enough to make your own.

Is this a 1 or 2 pump system? I thought it was a 2 pump system, and usually the power steering is on a different pump than the 3pt and fel. Also, take the fel out of it, until you know it is fixed, by reconnecting the chinese QDs. Not many DF354 owners here, so we don't know your exact hyd plumbing. Most input, including mine, is based on other chinese tractors. If you could sketch out your hyd system and post, that might help with some answers.

 

[bjr]

I've a JM354 and the 3pt or the remotes operate from the rear pump of the two pump mount on front right side of engine. The control between the 3pt and the remotes is from a bolt type valve on the left side just under the seat. Now, if I've disconnected the remote and not turned the bolt back for the 3pt operation the pump dead heads. I've not seen thiis bolt valve discussed here yet. I understand that the problem tractor only has like 15 hrs. on it so I would think that it would be wise to look at all the options on the complete hydraulic system. I tee in a pressure guage to be able to moniter the pressures now. bjr

 

[lp15404]

The tractor has a 2 pump system. I called the dealer back and he said he will get me a new pump. He seems to think the problem is with the new pump that he sent me for the FEL. He said that he ordered a CBN-E314 but they sent him the CBT-E316. He said that the CBT-E316 is being used now instead of the CBN-E314. As far as the valve on the 3pt hitch under the seat, I have opened it all the way. I think that is the way it is supposed to be set since I have nothing hooked to the hydraulics from the rear of the tractor.

I did not mention that in order to remove the FEL pump, I have to remove a pipe on the power steering pump because it runs directly behind the pump for the FEL and the pump won't come off with the pipe in the way. I think that is why the steering was slow to start working yesterday. It probably took a while to prime the pump.

I decided to put the old CBN-E314 pump back on the tractor since it did not have the problem of leaking hydraulic fluid into the engine crankcase. I had a terrible time removing the old gasket material, but I cleaned it as best I could and made myself a new gasket. I drained the oil in the engine and put a new oil filter on it and then refilled the oil in the engine. I put the old pump back on and added more hydraulic fluid. I let it run for a few minutes. I did not see any problems so far. The FEL is working and the steering seems to be working. I will have to check it out better tomorrow since I have a dinner to go to now.

 

[Soundguy]

My bet is/was a deadhead form badly mated qd's, and all this on and off work corrected that seatring issue..

gotta love those chinese for plumbing everything with (poorly fitting) qd's BEFORE the system reliefs... gosh what an engineering feat... I'll bet they make more money selling replacement hyd pumps than selling the tractor...!! ( smiley face.. )

Soundguy

 

[lp15404]

I checked all of the fluid levels in my tractor this morning and then I ran the tractor for about a half hour. I did not detect any leaks and I don't see the fluid level rising in the crankcase. The loader and the power steering appear to be operating normally. Until something else happens, I guess I will suspect that the quick disconnect coupler was the problem.

Thanks to everyone who has offered help or advise.

 

[GuglioLS]

Larry,

I'm glad you have your hydraulics functioning properly.

I have a few questions about that new CBT-E316 pump your dealer sent you.
Did it have a splined shaft that is about 2" - 3" long ? you mentioned it was different than the CBN-314 pump but that it would bolt up to the engine?

After carefully reading all the posts you had said that after installing the CBT-E316 pump that the FEL WAS working but that after pulling the tractor into your shed that you had noticed the engine was full of hydraulic fluid.

And basically all you did to fix that problem was to install the new CBN-314 pump. This tells me that you had already fixed the possible dead head problem.

The Chinese hydraulic pumps are designed to rotate in either direction, CW or CCW - PROVIDED that the internal ported pressure plates are orientated in the correct position.

My interest in the CBN 316 pump is more hydraulic flow than a 314 pump. I have been trying to find a pump with more flow than the 314 pump and if you would please confirm that you were able to bolt up the 316 pump and that the suction & pressure port holes were aligned with the existing plumbing tubes / hoses.

As a side note up untill now it was my understanding that the 316 pump was configured to run a backhoe by being attached to the back of a Jinma tractor just above the PTO shaft. And the 316 pump did not have a protruding Splined shaft but rather a slotted keyway to rotate the pump with a coupler.

My theory is - I think that 316 pump would have worked without blowing the shaft seal if it were rotating in the correct direction - IE taken apart and the ported pressure plates flipped "up side down". - Without being told, there would be no way of you knowing which direction of rotation the pump was configured for. I know this first hand from experience I received when I upgraded from a 310 pump to a 314 pump - It kept blowing the front seal every time I tried to move the FEL. After removing, fixing and re-installing the pump about 3 times - I finally figured out what to do to keep the seal from blowing and that was to flip the internal pressure plates.

Please let me know about that 316 pump.

Thank you,
Larry G