Did "Sandy" storm match expectations?

[dmccarty]

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The only low-cost and stable coast is going to be one that is allowed to build dunes that will naturally advance and retreat, that has tidal marshes capable of absorbing exceptional surges--that means moving structures away from the near-coast to give enough space for that to happen. Homes protected by seawalls and beach replenishment, dredging, etc. are a constant source of expenditure that is ineffective over the long term.
...

Before I left FLA, I read an article written by a professor studying beach erosion in FLA. He said erosion was taking place because of man made structures, sea wall, jetties, channels, etc, preventing the movement of sand along the coast. He said that the Big Bend area on the west coast of FLA did not have beach erosion because there were few, if any, man made structures in that protected area.

I was looking at some photos taken of the NC beaches after Sandy. It looked pretty grim. It does not take a PhD to figure that a building on a narrow sand dune is not going to last very long. Of course, this is why people historically did not live on the barrier islands. Only a few people lived out there until very recently and for good reason. Distant family members have a beach house on the NC coast. The house was built in the 50's best I can tell and it has a good amount of beach left. We stayed in a condo built on stilts next to the house once upon a time. The surf at high tide, was hitting the only dune between the house and the ocean. I did not sleep much because of the waves a few feet from my head. No way in heck I would own property on one of those moving dunes.

Later,
Dan

 

[dave1949]

Before I left FLA, I read an article written by a professor studying beach erosion in FLA. He said erosion was taking place because of man made structures, sea wall, jetties, channels, etc, preventing the movement of sand along the coast. He said that the Big Bend area on the west coast of FLA did not have beach erosion because there were few, if any, man made structures in that protected area.

I was looking at some photos taken of the NC beaches after Sandy. It looked pretty grim. It does not take a PhD to figure that a building on a narrow sand dune is not going to last very long. Of course, this is why people historically did not live on the barrier islands. Only a few people lived out there until very recently and for good reason. Distant family members have a beach house on the NC coast. The house was built in the 50's best I can tell and it has a good amount of beach left. We stayed in a condo built on stilts next to the house once upon a time. The surf at high tide, was hitting the only dune between the house and the ocean. I did not sleep much because of the waves a few feet from my head. No way in heck I would own property on one of those moving dunes.

Later,
Dan

I agree, they are not suitable building locations. As soon as dunes are built upon and some flooding happens, next comes a push for seawalls, jetties, etc. that work poorly in normal cases and aren't going to cut it in a rising sea level scenario. They may lull people into a false sense of safety for a decade or two, but eventually they will fail.

Also, dunes that are built upon become "anchored", people work to halt their natural advance and retreat, then they are destroyed by a large storm.

 

[farm guy]

Hi All,

Just my two cents, First, I used to live in New Jersey and I have seen the pictures of the damage. Places I used to work have been swept away. We left New Jersey because we knew one day a storm would hit there. We are so glad we did. When I saw the track I knew it was going the flush the area.

Now in WV we are used to deep snow, but not like this! The snow here was a super wet snow, we got two feet of it. Normally we get snow that deep it is a light powdery kind. We get around 150 inches a year. Two years ago we got 350 inches, I got a Branson 55hp with a FEL and a box blade. In four wheel drive I just about got stuck moving this snow. It took me two hours to go 150 feet due to all the fallen trees blocking my road near my barn. My power was out for three days and others may not have power till the end of the week or longer.
Our state road crews had to open my road twice due to fallen trees. God Bless them!

So in short, this was a lot worse then we thought it would be!

Farm guy

 

[Carl Bert]

If you read my post - I wrote or prepare for the consequences.
I've just gotten fed up with people I know of that bought beach front property and got it rebuilt basically new every few years at a subsidized cost because they could game the system. So now Jersey Shore gets rebuilt AGAIN, and we know Mother Nature will come back again.

I'm tired of seeing the wealthy suburbanites on the news bemoaning the damage to their million dollar homes because they wouldn't cut the trees. And complaining it happens almost every year. The time to prune and cut the trees is BEFORE they come crashing down on the power lines and houses..

Hey this should make you happy, since you are obviously against wealthy suburbanites. First FEMA does not pay anything to those who had a second home or vacation home damaged.

Second, FEMA does not pay anything to those who earn above a certain salary. I know this because two of my clients had their homes severely damaged by Sandy and cannot collect a dime from FEMA. I am not talking about really wealthy. They only earn between 250 and 300 a year. That may sound like a lot to some, but its far from being independently wealthy, where you would not need FEMA's help. I think it's absolutely unfair. What's good for one is good for all.

 

[newbury]

Hey this should make you happy, since you are obviously against wealthy suburbanites. First FEMA does not pay anything to those who had a second home or vacation home damaged.

Second, FEMA does not pay anything to those who earn above a certain salary. I know this because two of my clients had their homes severely damaged by Sandy and cannot collect a dime from FEMA. I am not talking about really wealthy. They only earn between 250 and 300 a year. That may sound like a lot to some, but its far from being independently wealthy, where you would not need FEMA's help. I think it's absolutely unfair. What's good for one is good for all.

GREAT - that does improve my mood. Having been a "wealthy suburbanite", until I retired last year, many of my associates had collected from FEMA in the past.

 

[Gator6x4]

Was not aware of a salary cap on income. I have heard of not being able to collect from FEMA for damages because the home owner could not actually show a loss. Example: One owns a home on the beach and it is damaged. The home owner has a "Replacement Home owners policy"with a rental while displaced clause, "Flood Insurance and Wind Damage Insurance". If FEMA paid money also the home owner would make a profit from the storm.

Of course money questions may be moot. FEMA according to some sources only has 3.8 billion in reserves. I have seen damage estimates from 60 to 100 billion. Will Congress authorize FEMA to borrow the money? If I lived in NJ I would be worried. Winter is rapidly approaching. The ocean may be a nice place to visit in the summer but it is a bear in the winter. What about food, clothing and shelter for the elderly, and children to protect them from the harsh Jersey Shores winter elements?

Now is not the time to be discussing who is and who isn't getting money because of the storm or who makes to much money to receive money from FEMA. Now is the time to insure the storm related fatality number does not increase and no one goes hungry or has to exist in a frigid environment while finger pointing and verbal verbage flys.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I think FEMA still has all those Katrina mobile homes outside of Houston. People should stay warm there. The basic principle is, if you can't live somewhere, go somewhere else. Don't hang around to freeze and starve, then ***** because you are freezing and starving.

 

[Gator6x4]

I think FEMA still has all those Katrina mobile homes outside of Houston. People should stay warm there. The basic principle is, if you can't live somewhere, go somewhere else. Don't hang around to freeze and starve, then ***** because you are freezing and starving.

Sometimes it is not possible to MOVE. An individual who has 28 of his 30 year requirement made toward retirement is not going to just quit his job and move 4000 miles to another State where he would have to start all over again, if he was lucky and found a job.

New Jersey was hit hard. No streets to drive on. No Natural Gas for heat. No Electricity. No Water, No Grocery Stores, No Gas Stations, etc all things needed for a healthy life style and also all things that will and can take months to rebuild. Regardless of who you are or how tough or self reliant you think you are placed in the same environment you would also be "BITCHING, FREEZING AND STARVING".People have a tendency to hang on thinking tomorrow will be better in disasters when all the time things are actually getting worse. Hurricane Sandy was a huge problem Now comes a "North Easter". I have experienced a couple of those. I don't know which I hate the most a hurricane or a North Easter.

 

[Carl Bert]

GREAT - that does improve my mood. Having been a "wealthy suburbanite", until I retired last year, many of my associates had collected from FEMA in the past.

I knew it, an angry old man that can't stand to see anyone with a few dollars benefit from FEMA. Income should not be a deciding factor, as to who is and is not entitled to FEMA. I was just talking to a friend who's neighbor lost his home and a restaurant on the shore. Both completely destroyed. Judging by last years income, he will not be entitled to get any help from FEMA, but he no longer has an income. How can this possibly be fair?

I'm sure this story improved Newbury's mood quite a bit more.

 

[KTurner]

First FEMA does not pay anything to those who had a second home or vacation home damaged.

Second, FEMA does not pay anything to those who earn above a certain salary.

Along these lines... Does anyone on this thread actually know what type of assistance FEMA is going to provide? I've heard on the radio that they'd only provide $32,000. Now that's a lot of money to be giving away, especially considering how many people were impacted, but that's not going to come anywhere close to replacing a destroyed home. I checked the fema website real quick, but it doesn't readily show that type of information. They do have a bunch of different loan programs. Giving someone a loan to rebuild is a completely different ball park than rebuilding for someone, but you'd need all that money up front to loan it out. The news would probably report 'fema paid out $1 billion' rather than 'fema paid out $50 million and issued $950 million in loans'.

Keith