Did you know Roundup Ready sweet corn is now available?

[daugen]

Some alternative organic herbicides are available such as vinegar and citrus oil

And I've made some. Concentrated orange essence, not cheap at all, vinegar and a touch of dishwater detergent.
Worked slowly but did work, sadly not as I thought, and herein lies a short almost funny story.

My mother in law told her sister in Michigan, who was a big organic gardener, of our desires to plant/maintain a large
organic garden. And we wanted something to get rid of the bugs and even leaf blight.
so Aunt Sue sends us her handwritten recipe, and all I saw on the top was organic.
Too bad I didn't read it more carefully....

So when gazillions of bug sacks on the bottom of the leaves started appearing, and all the little buggies coming out of them, well
we had a cure! On went the home made organic bug killer.
Well, I can report that the bugs seemed to go away, and most died.
But the plants, which were in terrible shape anyway by now, really croaked totally.
Hmmmm. Went back and read the recipe again and just groaned.
Yup. Organic Herbicide. Not Pesticide.
Basically a strong all natural degreaser.

So yes, the home made stuff can work, though issues of soil ph remain.
I wussed out this year and bought the commercial organic stuff; at many times the
cost. But the price of that orange essence would have to come WAY down in bulk to make
this worthwhile. Never had the nerve to add some to the morning OJ....:licking:

 

[Barry 1]

Could you post the link on this? The reason I am asking is because some of the facts in your statement is flawed. I'm not saying it isn't true but 2,4-D (which was a chemical molecule in agent orange but not the complete forumation) has been used on corn for the last 50 years. It's a broadleaf herbicide and corn (which is a fescue) is completely immune to except for in its early 2-3 leaf stage. It is no longer used nearly as widely though because of roundup unless there is a pigweed problem. (Pigweed in some places has developed a resistance to glyphosate in some places due to overuse) and yes it is often used on sweetcorn for those who are wondering.

Cheers Arrow:drink: While we have that scotch and roundup might as well throw a shot of 2,4-D in for a chaser.

Just Google "Dow Chemical GMO corn" There are hundreds of articles about it.

 

[super55]

Thanks Barry,

I am kind of curious as to why they are developing a seed to be resistant to 2,4-d to begin with. Corn already has a pretty good tolerance against the chemical 2,4-D, 2,4-DB, and 2,4-D LV. I'm guessing dupoint cooked up a hotter blend that is more effective but also fries the corn in the process. Just like all other herbicides that have been used for any amount of time their effectiveness decreases. The same situation we deal with bacteria and antibiotics.

 

[dave1949]

Dave I wonder are there any simple answers. I dont think you can eliminate the economic pressure when it comes to farming. No matter which type of farming you do the inputs are generally the same. It's a financial investment of seed, fertilizer, equipment, labor, energy and whatever other costs specific to that product being produced along with inherent risks such as insect pressure, weed growth competition, and the uncontrolled weather and other natural disasters along with a capitalist type market supply and demand of a perishable, limited life span product. Effective pesticide use, controlled labor inputs, contract growing, and crop insurance would eliminate some of that risk. Hmm that sounds familair.

And just what is a typical farmer? Different areas of the country lend themselves to different crops and approaches. Soils vary. Farms in the Northeast it seems to me are generally smaller and more sustainably diversified. Then there is large scale commodity growing typical found in the midwest. California and its extensions into Mexico are different yet. Huge farms with monoculture crops and extensive labor force. The Northwest or Southeast different again

I have heard this before where the average age of "farmers" was like somewhere in their mid to late 50's so I dont even know if many would even give much thought to your question but I can say that here in the Northeast there seems to be a whole new generation of young people that want to farm. Many seek to intern and to learn then look to do something for themselves after graduation. Its tough to get land so there are programs to try and connect those looking for opportunities with aging farm holders. The ever growing popularity of community supported agriculture coupled with the technological advances of high tunnels use as season extenders and 4 season cropping, plus a year round demand for local, fresh, and sustainable looks pretty promising.

Off topic: Dave I'm curious to whereabouts in Maine is Industry? I was in Gorham. One of the best field trips I had was to go to Johnny Seed's experimental research farm in Albion

Industry is about a one hour drive northwest from Albion. Johnny's is a very active supplier to commercial growers and home gardeners. Their catalogs are pretty informative about varieties and methods.
Johnny's Selected Seeds Online - Welcome

I realize the question of how a typical farmer would like to be farming 10-30 years out is very open and varies considerably by region. It is a perspective the public rarely or never hears, but it is a message producers need to communicate I think. Sure, farmers need to give consumers what they want, but educating consumers about their wants will move them in a direction that should be beneficial for both. A typical farmer, no matter where they are, must have a business goal in mind of "this is what I want to be doing 10 years from now."

Unless that is shared with consumers, it is easy to get the feeling that farmers/producers are complacently along for the ride with whatever marketing scheme is dreamed up by the Monsanto's of the world. I don't think that is true in the majority of cases. If a farmer can't get to where they want to go, enlisting the public's support through education is one proven venue to use. The voices of the farmers and producers are not being heard well enough. They are not connecting with the buying public in a meaningful way. The open farm days and such are probably preaching to the choir more than anything.

This area of Maine is not prosperous, our young people are leaving for jobs, etc. There is a push for a rebirth of local agriculture that is slowly gathering momentum. Aside from buying locally grown foods, I have noodled on ways to support that movement by lowering the cost of entry for someone interested in growing food.

It is a tough nut to crack. I have the land resource to provide a starter-learner farm of some type. I would need a young person with the interest, and a day job to support them, while they hopefully gain experience and possibly make the transition to full-time growing over a period of years. There are hurdles to boot-strapping an area into agriculture.

 

[DFB]

Well the newest GM corn development is called Enlist with 2,4-D herbicide resistance

It hasnt been FDA approved at least not yet
These are the two most current articles I see on the web

Dow officials say market research shows that cropland acres infested with glyphosate-resistant weeds increased 80 percent over the past two years.

UPDATE 1-Dow's controversial new GMO corn delayed amid protests | Reuters

And the latest collaboration between Dow and Monsanto with what Dow calls Smart Stax technology combining more than one GM trait in a product

Dow AgroSciences, Monsanto Cross-License Advanced Corn Trait Technology, Designed to Provide Exceptional New Tools for Weed and Insect Management | Dow AgroSciences Media Relations

 

[DFB]

I have the land resource to provide a starter-learner farm of some type. I would need a young person with the interest, and a day job to support them, while they hopefully gain experience and possibly make the transition to full-time growing over a period of years. There are hurdles to boot-strapping an area into agriculture.

Well it a worthwhile endeavor I say. Are you familair with the local resources like MOFGA offers?

Places like the FSA and the USDA offer loan programs too. There are other resources like the Carrot Project here in the Northeast. The web page has a link to a working farm in Freedom Maine.

We have similar situations here. I once sat on a board to figure out how to best acomodate such ideas and designed a working plan. I know of at least 3 scenarios that are working

One that came to fruitation was CSA style farm (Community Supported Agriculture right?)
How this one works is its sponsered by a core group of investors which became a non profit entity. Originally there were about 20 interested parties. I believe it went with 11 committed people the first year. Its base investors were able to use the pool's money (about 10K) to pay a contractual land lease fee, buy seeds, plants, add fencing animal housing etc. and stock the farm. See it also does eggs and meat chickens. The farmer gets some early season income and all the profits from seasonal sale from farmers market, farm stand, resturant contracts etc. above and beyond the investors payback. The investors get there payback thru weekly seasonal harvests and also charitable contribution in the form of subsidizing low income shareholder participation. Its going into the 3rd year now it seems to be working. In this case it was m/f couple. He did most of the daily farm work and she works a day job as a teacher, obviously summers off. Shareholder contributions have grown. From what I understand they are considering some type of outright property purchase I dont know the details if its the nonprofit or the couple themselves. In this scenario the landowners are minimaly involved and the business/non profit operates mostly autonomous.

Another scenario we have here is that an actual established working farm is now maned by a small group of young people who work with the landowner to run a large profitable business. They get their housing, do the planting and harvesting, help run a store, supply markets and resturants etc. Works...young idealism at its finest. I'm sure the direct experience will become invaluable asset for them

3rd was another CSA program that had been well established for decades the operators wanted out but needed their investment back. This one was probably the most difficult transition. It involved state sponsered land conservation purchases, shareholder fundraising efforts, keeping the farm working and financing outright the housing and buildings.

Well my tractor's not charging up the battery so I bought an aftermarket regulator...got to go see if it works now

 

[dave1949]

Well it a worthwhile endeavor I say. Are you familair with the local resources like MOFGA offers?

Places like the FSA and the USDA offer loan programs too. There are other resources like the Carrot Project here in the Northeast. The web page has a link to a working farm in Freedom Maine.

We have similar situations here. I once sat on a board to figure out how to best acomodate such ideas and designed a working plan. I know of at least 3 scenarios that are working

One that came to fruitation was CSA style farm (Community Supported Agriculture right?)
How this one works is its sponsered by a core group of investors which became a non profit entity. Originally there were about 20 interested parties. I believe it went with 11 committed people the first year. Its base investors were able to use the pool's money (about 10K) to pay a contractual land lease fee, buy seeds, plants, add fencing animal housing etc. and stock the farm. See it also does eggs and meat chickens. The farmer gets some early season income and all the profits from seasonal sale from farmers market, farm stand, resturant contracts etc. above and beyond the investors payback. The investors get there payback thru weekly seasonal harvests and also charitable contribution in the form of subsidizing low income shareholder participation. Its going into the 3rd year now it seems to be working. In this case it was m/f couple. He did most of the daily farm work and she works a day job as a teacher, obviously summers off. Shareholder contributions have grown. From what I understand they are considering some type of outright property purchase I dont know the details if its the nonprofit or the couple themselves. In this scenario the landowners are minimaly involved and the business/non profit operates mostly autonomous.

Another scenario we have here is that an actual established working farm is now maned by a small group of young people who work with the landowner to run a large profitable business. They get their housing, do the planting and harvesting, help run a store, supply markets and resturants etc. Works...young idealism at its finest. I'm sure the direct experience will become invaluable asset for them

3rd was another CSA program that had been well established for decades the operators wanted out but needed their investment back. This one was probably the most difficult transition. It involved state sponsered land conservation purchases, shareholder fundraising efforts, keeping the farm working and financing outright the housing and buildings.

Well my tractor's not charging up the battery so I bought an aftermarket regulator...got to go see if it works now

The direction I am thinking in is similar to a business incubator situation. For example, the apprentices that pass through MOGFA, or the Village Farm in Freedom, Maine need somewhere to go next where they can run their own show, so to speak.

Presumably they have the interest, and are developing the needed skills, knowledge and experience. Their next big hurdle is the capital required for land, equipment and infrastructure. Some low-cost housing wouldn't hurt either. It's all those things that used to be passed down the generations of the family farm, they don't exist today. I think I can back-fill some of that.

I can supply the land and infrastructure without needing to get a financial return from it. My return would be the satisfaction of supporting my ideals, and seeing a young person move toward success. In any case, worst case, there would be a partial return on improvements I make to my property at some point in the future.

To protect the interests of the person I would be incubating--in case I get hit by a bus--I would probably set up something like a three year revolving lease at $1/acre. They would be assured of a three year window into the future. I would also set some minimum gross sales requirement by the end of the third year and thereafter, to protect my own goals.

What do you think? Is this a pipe dream?

 

[DFB]

What do you think? Is this a pipe dream?

Nope

If the goal is not just to make money for yourself personally, but to develop mentoring program/business incubator which also makes an agricultural investment in the land should lend itself to an array of options.

Even if the land maintained is in private ownership, grant money is usual available provided it benefits land stewardship, educational or experimental agricultural programs. One example is a grant where you can qualify for a tunnel house provided you follow the guidelines. Here in Vermont the NRCS just approved 17 during the first round of grant. KYFKYF...Know your Farmer Know your Food!

There is also funding for farm to school projects available in many states. Usually how that works is the money actually goes to the school which in turn is used to purchase from local producers. Other types of goverment programs such as SNAP and WIC have been made available to local produced fruits and vegetables for the benefit of the recieving client and the farmer too.

You could plant and maintain an orchard that would be something tangible that can be passed from tenet to tenet, greenhouse structures too. You could experiment with sustainabilty techniques, four season growing, compost building, cover cropping, raise sheep or other livestock for educational purposes. One college teach I knew had similar type ideas she asked for my advice on buying out an existing long established one family privately owned greenhouse/flower shop business and turning it into an educational learning center, indoor year round growing produce...man these gals get all the ideas

This same person made a local farming documentery film recently (4 years in the making actually) In it she profiles a couple that live in my town. They are both in there 80's now but were instrumental in the local food movement. He taught at the local college and thru their farm they started the Center for Resourceful Living (CRL) the College's first foray into sustainability in the 1970s. You can read about it here
One of the many interesting stories that come of out it was one of their first endeavors was to want to grow rice in Vermont. That wasn't the most popular of ideas at the time but recently there have been research grants to cultivate and study just that! Talk about to come full circle.


You know I have to relate to all this because where I work my boss and the owner are always complaining about other nearby farms getting grants, low interest agricultural loans etc. Theres a whole host of programs I try to avail them to but dont seem to understand a private for profit business such as they operate usually without doing anything that pertains to the environment, conservation, sustainabilty, public awareness, research, or education pretty much disqualifies them from the start.

 

[dave1949]

DFB - Thank you for the insight, perspective and information. I have some things to read and chew on now.

 

[DFB]

No problem

I have one more regional resource link Northeast SARE programs

Poke around the web sight it has links to grants state by state and what they were used for. The rice grant is under VT