Diesel exhaust fluid

[dmiletich]

I bought a new Ford F350 at the first of this year. Because it is a 2011 I have to add diesel exhaust fluid, what a pain. Does anyone know a work around to this so I don't have to keep buying this stuff. It uses about 5 gallons every 6,000 miles. I really have not kept accurate track of this so my figures might be off. But it did cost me about $22 for the last 5 gallons.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I just got word from a guy that his 6.7 used 3 gallons in 10,000 miles. Wonder why there is so much difference between his truck and yours?

My truck stops sell it at the pump for about 1/3 the cost. Big trucks are using it now also.

Chris

 

[groundcover]

Looks like you are stuck with it. Price has come down a bit as more rigs out there require it though. At least your milage is up over the 2008-2010 models . So other than the fluid what do you think of the rig? I drove a F350 ext cab srw, what a beauty , guess it should be for over fifty grand !

 

[schmism]

pure urea (the majority of the exhaust fluid) has a melting point of ~273 F

which means the systems employ a series of heaters to keep the fluid liquid (especially in cold times and in cold climates) (not just a tank heater but a line heater and injector heater)

and for Ford, who cant figure out how to do a heater for washer fluid correctly.... it wouldnt surprise me a bit to see significant issues with the urea systems on the trucks within 3 years, and because of that manufactures completely move away from urea based systems in 5.

Only time will tell but im solidly on the side of the fence that thinks that system is going to be a nightmare to maintain.

 

[bullbreaker]

I just got word from a guy that his 6.7 used 3 gallons in 10,000 miles. Wonder why there is so much difference between his truck and yours?Chris

Chris maybe his trucks DEF tank was not filled full at the time of purchase ?
Or he has a dually and working truck harder.

Boone

 

[timswi]

My local mom-pop gas station sells it. I think it's around $3.75 per gallon. I'm sure you can cut that by at least 30%..In a pinch, you gotta pay what they want though.

 

[arsenix2001]

There are companies like spartan diesel that use in car programmers to reprogram the computer to allow the use of a standard exhaust system. They are widely used in 6.4's (my dpf is sitting behind my barn) and tbe 6.7's kits are already being sold. Look to drop around $1200-1500 for a kit but you get a biiiig bump in hp and mpg. I checked them all out and spartan is the shizz. Been extremely happy with mine. The 275 race tune dynoed at 510 rwhp 1025lbs tq on a stock daily drive, only mods are an air cleaner and dpf cat converter delete pipe :confused2:

 

[bullbreaker]

BTW:Stopped by to visit our local Bota/NH and now new Mahindra dealer and was told by owner that soon the New Holland tractors 125 hp and up will be running urea(def).

Boone

 

[dmiletich]

I absolutely love the truck with the exception of the need for exhaust fluid. It has a lot of torque and hp, more than I need.

 

[VitaBene]

There are companies like spartan diesel that use in car programmers to reprogram the computer to allow the use of a standard exhaust system. They are widely used in 6.4's (my dpf is sitting behind my barn) and tbe 6.7's kits are already being sold. Look to drop around $1200-1500 for a kit but you get a biiiig bump in hp and mpg. I checked them all out and spartan is the shizz. Been extremely happy with mine. The 250 tune dynoed at 510 rwhp 1025lbs tq on a stock daily drive, only mods are an air cleaner and dpf cat converter delete pipe :confused2:

Holy cow! At the rear wheels?

 

[gumshu]

I bought a new Ford F350 at the first of this year. Because it is a 2011 I have to add diesel exhaust fluid, what a pain. Does anyone know a work around to this so I don't have to keep buying this stuff. It uses about 5 gallons every 6,000 miles. I really have not kept accurate track of this so my figures might be off. But it did cost me about $22 for the last 5 gallons.

I must be behind the times... never heard of the stuff. What's the purpose? Do you have to use it? I have a 2010 F350 and auto regen cleans out the system. Are you at least getting good mileage?

 

[arsenix2001]

Holy cow! At the rear wheels?

Yes sir. I take dyno #s with a grain of salt tho, they all seem to read different. With the 275 race tune I can light the duals up on my crew cab 450 from a 10-15mph roll. Its crazy. I usually run the 210hp tune. The trans shifts hard enough to spill coffee with the 275 to protect the clutches. This i feel is pushing things a bit to the max tho! They even offer a 310 and 345 tune if you want to buy a spearco trans and head stud kit, those tunes put out over 6 hundo! :confused2::drool: Guys with single rear wheel ext cabs are running low 13's high 12's in the quarter all day. Ill never forget the look on the guys face face when I toasted his mustang at a light... Hehe . Check out spartan diesel tech on google or youtube, just search for "spartan tuned"

 

[arsenix2001]

I must be behind the times... never heard of the stuff. What's the purpose? Do you have to use it? I have a 2010 F350 and auto regen cleans out the system. Are you at least getting good mileage?

Stole this

Urea Injection
Urea is an organic compound commonly found in the urine of mammals. The compound controls nitrogen in the blood by bonding with the NOx molecule and rendering it harmless. This compound produces the same effect when injected into the NOx-rich exhaust stream of a diesel engine, reducing harmful emissions by as much as 80 percent (as in the case of Mercedes' BlueTec system).
It basically binds with the emmisions to form water in addition to the dpf filtering out particulates... Gooooo greeeen! *vomits in mouth*

 

[bullbreaker]

Just from my experience no BS.
I have a plain/jane 6.7(scorpion) 2011 F250 4X4 crewcab(3.55 rear end ratio).
Made sure dealer filled (topped) my def tank full at time of purchase.At 10,000 miles I put in myself a hair under 3 gal to top it.
Truck gettin a little under 19 mpg w/100 lbs of tools and 3 men over 200lbs each combined hwy/city driving.Mileage figured out on paper not just going by dash readout.I have yet to tow something with it.
Been real happy with truck so far.

Boone

 

[timswi]

There are companies like spartan diesel that use in car programmers to reprogram the computer to allow the use of a standard exhaust system. They are widely used in 6.4's (my dpf is sitting behind my barn) and tbe 6.7's kits are already being sold. Look to drop around $1200-1500 for a kit but you get a biiiig bump in hp and mpg. I checked them all out and spartan is the shizz. Been extremely happy with mine. The 275 race tune dynoed at 510 rwhp 1025lbs tq on a stock daily drive, only mods are an air cleaner and dpf cat converter delete pipe :confused2:

There could be warranty problems with doing that...I do admire your perfomance improvements though...:thumbsup:

 

[schmism]

Do you have to use it?

unless you use an aftermarket kit to delete the system (technically illegal) then yes you HAVE to use it.

It is my understanding that the truck will refuse to run if the urea tank is empty just like it would if it were out of fuel.

 

[bullbreaker]

It is my understanding that the truck will refuse to run if the urea tank is empty just like it would if it were out of fuel.

I have never run mine that low but at 800 miles left it's suppose to warn you to fill it up,

Boone

 

[arsenix2001]

There could be warranty problems with doing that...I do admire your perfomance improvements though...:thumbsup:

Oh you can bet on that! I have a good friend who is the diesel tech at the ford dealer my father used to manage, he doesnt care. But for big ticket items, yeah... All the stock components have to go back on and the programming gets removed. Heres where spartan is slick. Ford being the geniuses they are basically implanted a moving bianary code in the computer that only the ford programmer is supposed to reproduce for computer updates. Any non ford program will set a non deletable code able to be read by mr warranty rep. It even stores it in all kinds of wierd places like window regulator modules and such... Sneaky bas tards! Spartan found a way to replicate the code and trick the computer. It doesnt piggyback, it actually reflashes the entire unit. Upon restoring to your saved *factory* file it wipes its tracks, even from those pesky modules. Its scary though, one wrong move or a key off shutdown during a flash and bye bye computer, for good. :ashamed:

And schisism is right, the truck will go into limp in mode when low on urea, they will even shut themselves off after extended idling. Gotta love big brother.

 

[bbrown4804]

BTW:Stopped by to visit our local Bota/NH and now new Mahindra dealer and was told by owner that soon the New Holland tractors 125 hp and up will be running urea(def).

Boone

You can thank Tier Four emissions standards for that. The ag periodicals around here have companies advertising the big chemical cubes (I can't remember many gallons) of def because all the larger sized new tractors now have urea injection and dpf. I would like to see how much some of those big tracked and articulated tractors take a day though compared to our trucks.

Back on topic. I wouldn't mess much with the emissions crap until your warranty expires. Especially if something does go out. A plain jane stock truck is much more likely to have the warranty guy say OK to any warranty claims than one that had been modified. Then once it expires and if you in an area where emissions testing is not required, 4in. turbo back exhaust, a better intake, and CTS tuner w/ extra gauges hooked in wouldn't be a bad idea. And maybe a bullet proof EGR or delete kit too depending.
Of course just buying the darn urea for now would be cheaper in the short term if you don't plan on holding on to it for a long time. But of you do, who doesn't love better mpg's and more usable hp & torque through out the powerband on their truck?

 

[RickB]

Given the choice between DEF systems and EGR-based compliance, the smart money is on DEF based aftertreatment unless vehicle size (small) restrictions make the system impractical. The majority of the industry is there, or moving in that direction. Engines are fueled and timed more like they were under Tier II and fuel efficiency and torque characteristics are much improved over Tire III results. Fuel costs are generally lower than Tier III engines even factoring in the DEF fluid cost. The system has been in use in Europe for half a decade.