Diesel Longevity worth the increased maintenance costs

[JB4310]

Not sure where the perception that diesel has higher maintenance cost vs gas?

If you take into account higher mpg, especially with anything over light weight, longer service life especially in HD service. Diesel is not only the choice but the only option to get the job done in some cases.

That's why diesels are the preferred power plant in most heavier applications (10K and up), if Gasser's where more cost effective then they would be gas powered.

Sure in the grocery getter class, it gets sketchy, if you blow an injector through the hood on a $60,000 pick-up truck, where the diesel option cost more than a complete gas engine. you start complaining and posting on the truck sites, which gets people questioning it's worth the extra cost.

But even in the light duty applications, barring a catastrophic failure, IMO it would at minimum be a wash. And you CAN take into account the initial cost, cause your gonna get most of that back with higher resale value.

JB.

 

[Duffster]

Not sure where the perception that diesel has higher maintenance cost vs gas?

If you take into account higher mpg, especially with anything over light weight, longer service life especially in HD service. Diesel is not only the choice but the only option to get the job done in some cases.

That's why diesels are the preferred power plant in most heavier applications (10K and up), if Gasser's where more cost effective then they would be gas powered.

Sure in the grocery getter class, it gets sketchy, if you blow an injector through the hood on a $60,000 pick-up truck, where the diesel option cost more than a complete gas engine. you start complaining and posting on the truck sites, which gets people questioning it's worth the extra cost.

But even in the light duty applications, barring a catastrophic failure, IMO it would at minimum be a wash. And you CAN take into account the initial cost, cause your gonna get most of that back with higher resale value.

JB.

Well said.

 

[KeithInSpace]

I work my 2 to death but take care of them and have zero issues. Guys I know who baby them seem to have more issues.

[smiling] We are talking about diesels still, right?

 

[EE_Bota]

The diesel vehicles I have had were fairly painless
Two VW pickups, each bought used for less than $2000.
One Suburban diesel used for ~$2500.

Suburban needed tranny work after a few 10's of thousands of miles. $750...should have done it myself for the learning experience. My older brother wound up with it at cost. My younger brother has it now. It is still going.....

One of the VW was loaned to my best friend, and a belt broke, so the head got warped, and a piston smeared.

Bottom line: I try to spend so little that if it worked a year and then burned down, I would not cry (much.)

I have buddies that have spent big money for diesels, and then spent big money on repairs. One buddy simply refused to repair his diesel, and sold it for parts. It was a very fine truck. A ford. A line broke, and all the oil went.

Diesels have advantages, but are not as advantageous as they were when I owned them. Diesel was cheaper than gas at that time, and they had plenty of wax in the diesel fuel, which gives it 10% more energy per gallon than gasoline. Recent diesel is pricier than premium gas in my part of the world, and I have HEARD that the energy content is now lower due to less wax.

My recommendation...buy what WILL NOT WORRY you. I love not to worry.

 

[Duffster]

I have HEARD that the energy content is now lower due to less wax.
.

Diesel still has well over 10% more energy than gasoline.

 

[Steve C]

Hi guys, I don't want to start any kind of war here. There is something I always wondered. Does the increased longevity of a diesel engine offset the assumed increased maintenance costs? I'd be refering to 3/4 & 1 ton pick up trucks. If one were to ignore the increased purchase price are diesels more economical to own?

Thanks

I have owned many 1/2 and 3/4 ton gas trucks, Fords, Chevy's CMC's and even a old Dodge.

I presently own a 01 GMC Sanoma and a 03 GMC one ton dually extended cab four wheel drive. I haven't found much difference in maintenance cost on any of them.
For example, I just purchased an oil filter, $4.99, 10 quarts of synthetic blend oil @ 1.80 each after rebate and a new premium air filter $13 to service my 03Duramax.

My do it myself oil change ($23) costs me the same or less than an oil change for my 4 cylinder Ford Escort if I pay to have it done at Wal-Mart with similar premium oil (less than five quarts in the car).

Considering that the Diesel goes 2 to 3 times longer between required changes, it is a bargain.

To be fair It would cost me about $9 less if I was to do a DIY oil change on a gasoline powered truck due to using around half as much oil to do the service. Most of that difference will be made up for in the longer service between changes. The way I see it, it is pretty much equal for routine maintenance.

Due to the extra weight and the HUGE difference in power delivery, the tires will probably wear faster. Moderate use of the throttle could probably save the tires, but what fun is that. My diesel will smoke all four of its rear tires trying to push its 7,400 # empty weight away from a stop.

On the other hand my brakes will probably last longer due to the great braking offered by the Allison transmission, especially when in tow/haul mode, helping make up for the increased tire wear.

My total maintenance cost for my Diesel has been less than $200 for the first 36000 miles. ( it did help that due to a recall there was a free fuel filter that was supplied by GM exactly when I needed to change mine )

Oh and if fuel mileage is to be factored in I think the Diesel has a huge advantage. I get 16-17 running empty (I know many diesels get over 20 empty, but mine doesn't) But I towed a trailer 800+ miles with 8 horses in it, at 65-75 MPH on expressways and back roads early last year and averaged 14 miles per gallon. I get about the same mileage pulling my 29 foot high profile 9,000# 5th wheel travel trailer with my 3,000# boat behind it in the same conditions.

My experience with gas powered trucks is that I would get around 7-9 mpg under the same conditions.

So to sum it up, if you are not towing, there isn't much difference. It would be silly to own a diesel if you very rarely tow anything.

If you are towing something big and or heavy, the difference is huge and the advantage goes to the Diesel in a big way, 30-40% fuel savings.

My big truck rarely leaves the driveway without dragging something behind it, I try to use the appropiate sized vehicle for the task at hand, so for me the Diesel is much more economical to operate, given the way I use it.

This has been my experience, yours may be different.

I have tried very hard to not deviate from the core of the origional question

Below is a picture of my hauling fleet. The Escort is the Daily driver and gets used the most, 226,000 miles and 34 mpg. The 4 cylinder Sanoma 112,000 miles gets 16 MPG towing the 10 foot enclosed trailer or my 3,000# boat, 23 MPG empty or 26 with the cap and tailgate removed. The GMC Duramax one ton 36,000 miles gets 14 MPG towing just about anything and around 17 empty, 18 best ever empty. (mileage seems to be improving as more miles are added)

 

[Diamondpilot]

Steve

Your thinking is just like mine. I use my Saturn for 70% of our driving. When we just tow a small load, 7,000# or so, or go out to dinner its the Titan. The Titan is also the choice for pulling out stuck vehicles and transversing the snow drifted roads.

My diesels are only used to pull loads in excess of 10,000# and get driven only when needed. This keeps cost down.

Now for the Dmax. You are lucky your air filter is only $13.00 and it works for you. My Dmax had the same one as yours but suffered from overheating issues until I changed it to a over sized aftermarket unit. This is a know problem on the Dmax and they changed it to a much larger new designed air filter the next year up to 2008 that cost about $50. It did solve the overheating issue but then after a new design in 08' and later now have a new issue with the air filters and its being redesigned again due to it coating up with snow and going into limp mode.

Chris

 

[Steve C]

Steve

Your thinking is just like mine. I use my Saturn for 70% of our driving. When we just tow a small load, 7,000# or so, or go out to dinner its the Titan. The Titan is also the choice for pulling out stuck vehicles and transversing the snow drifted roads.

My diesels are only used to pull loads in excess of 10,000# and get driven only when needed. This keeps cost down.

Now for the Dmax. You are lucky your air filter is only $13.00 and it works for you. My Dmax had the same one as yours but suffered from overheating issues until I changed it to a over sized aftermarket unit. This is a know problem on the Dmax and they changed it to a much larger new designed air filter the next year up to 2008 that cost about $50. It did solve the overheating issue but then after a new design in 08' and later now have a new issue with the air filters and its being redesigned again due to it coating up with snow and going into limp mode.

Chris

I am due for another fuel filter, and after a little research I think I am going to add a aftermarket filter in addition to the factory filter to help keep the injectors in good health.

This is something I coppied off one of the diesel boards, it is one of the biggist reasons any of us drive a diesel truck.

My brother used to get similar mileage with his 01 Chevy extended cab 4x4 with a 5.3 gas motor, but he didn't have the capacity to pull or haul much.

posted by Alleghenyrose on the diesel board http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357169 "Last Nov 8th, filled tank to top of fill tube, wrote down 117,898 miles on receipt and took off from Leonardtown, Md to see my 94 yr old Dad who had fallen in Mansfield Ohio. Drove straight through, on cruise at 65 mph with no traffic. Spent the night in Mansfield, got up next day, drove toward Olean NY, and stopped in Jamestown NY to get fuel. Filled tank to top of filler neck, took 32.5 gallons, wrote down mileage at 118,612 miles.

The math: 118,612 miles minus 117,898 miles is 714 miles on one tank!
The mpg: 714 miles divided by 32.5 g is 21.96 mpg.

I am original owner of my K2500 reg cab, long bed 4X4, 100% stock, stock tires at 60psi, original injectors, never had a drop of additives, AMSOIL 15W-40 synthetic oil, Mobil 1 75W-90 in differental, BP Autran Syn 295 in tranny, cruise on 98% of time, ARE cap. If it were in the Westminister dog show, it would have won best in show."

 

[JasG]

Diesels have advantages, but are not as advantageous as they were when I owned them. Diesel was cheaper than gas at that time, and they had plenty of wax in the diesel fuel, which gives it 10% more energy per gallon than gasoline. Recent diesel is pricier than premium gas in my part of the world, and I have HEARD that the energy content is now lower due to less wax..

Gasoline has between 112000 and 122000 BTU's per gallon, Diesel 130,000-140000 depending on where you look it up. Most of the time I find 115000 for gas and 140000 for Diesel, I don't know why the difference.

From what I have read it is sulfur, which acts as a lubricant to the fuel system, that is removed. During the process to remove the sulfur water is mixed into the fuel in a way that (I don't fully understand it) it can not be removed. This does 2 things, wears on the fuel system and absorbs energy during the burn. This is also what I was told at a place that does diesel fuel system repair. They have seen more work since the lower sulfer fuels have come out.

As I said I know a few people with new Diesels and they have all seen milage in 11-14 range where each had trucks of the same brand before that had them in the low 20's. I only know 1 dodge owner, he has an 08 dodge, hasn't had a repair yet, but is around 14 mpg. The guys I know with Ford and Chevy's have had injector and ERG issues.

The new 2010 or 2011's from Ford and GM have the added bonus of urea injection. This is a fluid that under certain conditions is injected into the exhaust to clean it up further.

I myself am one of the ones who loved Diesels from this time I was a little boy. Now I just don't see a reason unless you are towing every day to have one of the newer trucks.

 

[Steve C]

Gasoline has between 112000 and 122000 BTU's per gallon, Diesel 130,000-140000 depending on where you look it up. Most of the time I find 115000 for gas and 140000 for Diesel, I don't know why the difference.

From what I have read it is sulfur, which acts as a lubricant to the fuel system, that is removed. During the process to remove the sulfur water is mixed into the fuel in a way that (I don't fully understand it) it can not be removed. This does 2 things, wears on the fuel system and absorbs energy during the burn. This is also what I was told at a place that does diesel fuel system repair. They have seen more work since the lower sulfer fuels have come out.

As I said I know a few people with new Diesels and they have all seen milage in 11-14 range where each had trucks of the same brand before that had them in the low 20's. I only know 1 dodge owner, he has an 08 dodge, hasn't had a repair yet, but is around 14 mpg. The guys I know with Ford and Chevy's have had injector and ERG issues.

The new 2010 or 2011's from Ford and GM have the added bonus of urea injection. This is a fluid that under certain conditions is injected into the exhaust to clean it up further.

I myself am one of the ones who loved Diesels from this time I was a little boy. Now I just don't see a reason unless you are towing every day to have one of the newer trucks.

I agree, the newer trucks are not my cup of tea.

I would rather have a early 90's Dodge Cummins or a 7.3 Ford than what us now being offered. My 03 will probably be the last Diesel I will buy for a while. It has more than enough complicated stuff on it.