Diesel Longevity worth the increased maintenance costs

[tex25025]

The KDP issue with the Cummins, the issues with the 6.0 Ford and I'm sure I've read about people having problems with DMax engines. Are these things by their very nature fragile and maintenance intensive? Or as durable as gas engines, but when something goes wrong it goes very wrong?

Since I've owned a 6.0 for 5 yrs, have over 200k, puts down 508/721 hp/tq I can tell you that most of the issues with the 6.0 and newer vehicles are due more to owner and tech's(particularly with the early years of the 6.0) ignorence then anything else.

That starts to make even more sense when you figure that when the 6.0 came out, it was the height of the new boom, people had more money then sense. People got a diesel because it was cool. They came with little to no knowledge and what knowledge they had was based on how diesels were in the past(same goes with those that have always had diesels, they were thinking it was the same as the 7.3 and earlier ones).

Now upkeep does cost more and is more frequent(I would actually say oil changes to be done at 5k, not 7k rather you are talking regular or severe service and fuel done every other oil change, not 15k) due to the fact that these engines are high performance engines. Not like a corvette mind you, but high performance none the less.

6.0 does have it's flaws(headbolts especially, not headgaskets, head bolts I still run stock headgaskets despite having over 500hp), however, you can mitigate what those issues are if you know how to "drive around them". It took time for the engine to be out there for people to realize that. However, by that time the stereotype of the 6.0 was already out there. It's a shame, it is a whole lot better engine then people give it credit for.

 

[FlaDon]

Guys like to brag about stuff but most of the time when you hear them complaining its about something serious. Diesels cost big money to fix. Anything good is going to cost ya! Look at WOMEN.

Diesels are funny. I work my 2 to death but take care of them and have zero issues. Guys I know who baby them seem to have more issues.

Chris

Diesels run best if kept in the 75 to 80% load range all the time. If you baby one, they just don't work out well. Keeping the air and oil in them clean is the most important thing.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

Since I've owned a 6.0 for 5 yrs, have over 200k, puts down 508/721 hp/tq I can tell you that most of the issues with the 6.0 and newer vehicles are due more to owner and tech's(particularly with the early years of the 6.0) ignorence then anything else.

That starts to make even more sense when you figure that when the 6.0 came out, it was the height of the new boom, people had more money then sense. People got a diesel because it was cool. They came with little to no knowledge and what knowledge they had was based on how diesels were in the past(same goes with those that have always had diesels, they were thinking it was the same as the 7.3 and earlier ones).

Now upkeep does cost more and is more frequent(I would actually say oil changes to be done at 5k, not 7k rather you are talking regular or severe service and fuel done every other oil change, not 15k) due to the fact that these engines are high performance engines. Not like a corvette mind you, but high performance none the less.

6.0 does have it's flaws(headbolts especially, not headgaskets, head bolts I still run stock headgaskets despite having over 500hp), however, you can mitigate what those issues are if you know how to "drive around them". It took time for the engine to be out there for people to realize that. However, by that time the stereotype of the 6.0 was already out there. It's a shame, it is a whole lot better engine then people give it credit for.

While I agree the 6.0 is not as bad as you constantly hear. There certainly are alot of common failures. Mine is an 04 with just over 85k. I had my turbo go at 30k and now I'm starting to have puking issues. I know that my oil cooler is plugged and will replace it and the egr cooler in the up coming weeks. I'm praying it isn't the Head gaskets as the repair just too much (for a 50k truck with only 85k). Ford definatly had alot of incompotent/uneducated techs causing as many issues with them as they fixed. But you can't deny the many common issues with this engine. Turbo's HG's, injectors ,EGR Valves numerous oil leaks. Yet ford has done nothing to work with loyal ford customers to make it right. The truck has not be babied, I drive it daily and often tow 10-15k between my gn and dump trailer. I drive both backroads and high way and change my oil(synthetic) every 3-5k. The truck has always had all filters changed at or before ford specs. So now to keep the truck running I need to dump 1k into oil an egr cooler replacement(on top of my normal maintenance). I also need to add a coolant filter to prevent this sand build up again. I bought a diesel for long life,mpg and torque. I've gotten lots of torque but the others are lacking. Seeing as how I had a much larger inital investment in the diesel I have to say it hasn't work out too well for me. I wish I had gone the v10 route. I know now though if I went back to gas after a diesel I'd be disappointed in the towing performance for sure. Not brand bashing here just feel the Dmax is a better option over the 6.0.

Matt

 

[tex25025]

While I agree the 6.0 is not as bad as you constantly hear. There certainly are alot of common failures. Mine is an 04 with just over 85k. I had my turbo go at 30k and now I'm starting to have puking issues. I know that my oil cooler is plugged and will replace it and the egr cooler in the up coming weeks.

Casting sand is usually the culprit with a plugged oil cooler.

Turbo's HG's, injectors ,EGR Valves numerous oil leaks.

It's the TTY headbolts, not the gaskets that are an issue. International went with fewer bolts and Ford pumped up the HP. Not a good combo. Although International had the same issues on their vehicles which aren't tuned to nearly the HP that Ford did theirs, so it was a design issue.

Turbo and EGR valve are actually linked. You can mitigate that with how you drive the vehicle. 6.0s need to be babied til you get up to operating temp.(don't use the stock ECT gauge, not very reliable, unless you add on another 10-15 min of drive time depending on ambient temp). Once you get up to operating temp, then you can rag on the ole girl.

I so far have not had the oil leaks. It seems you either have them or you don't.

 

[Steve C]

While I agree the 6.0 is not as bad as you constantly hear. There certainly are alot of common failures. Mine is an 04 with just over 85k. I had my turbo go at 30k and now I'm starting to have puking issues. I know that my oil cooler is plugged and will replace it and the egr cooler in the up coming weeks. I'm praying it isn't the Head gaskets as the repair just too much (for a 50k truck with only 85k). Ford definatly had alot of incompotent/uneducated techs causing as many issues with them as they fixed. But you can't deny the many common issues with this engine. Turbo's HG's, injectors ,EGR Valves numerous oil leaks. Yet ford has done nothing to work with loyal ford customers to make it right. The truck has not be babied, I drive it daily and often tow 10-15k between my gn and dump trailer. I drive both backroads and high way and change my oil(synthetic) every 3-5k. The truck has always had all filters changed at or before ford specs. So now to keep the truck running I need to dump 1k into oil an egr cooler replacement(on top of my normal maintenance). I also need to add a coolant filter to prevent this sand build up again. I bought a diesel for long life,mpg and torque. I've gotten lots of torque but the others are lacking. Seeing as how I had a much larger inital investment in the diesel I have to say it hasn't work out too well for me. I wish I had gone the v10 route. I know now though if I went back to gas after a diesel I'd be disappointed in the towing performance for sure. Not brand bashing here just feel the Dmax is a better option over the 6.0.

Matt

Very well said. When a person pays that kind of money for the best the company offers they shouldn't have to know anything special about the truck or how to work around its faults. It shouldn't have any.

The expectation that if it is left in stock condition and maintained it should last a couple hundred thousand miles without any major expense is a reasonable one.

It doesn't matter what brand it is, Dodge, Ford or GM. We buy these things new because we don't want to wrench on them or throw a lot of money into keeping them running. When they don't live up to that expectation the manufacturer should make it right.

 

[tex25025]

Very well said. When a person pays that kind of money for the best the company offers they shouldn't have to know anything special about the truck or how to work around its faults. It shouldn't have any.

I wouldn't call the EGR system a fault. The TTY bolts is a fault, but the EGR system is not a fault. No one like it, but there are numerous people that have issue free EGR systems(on the internet, you really just hear about the ones that have issues because they are on the internet trying to find solutions). Those that do have issues with the EGR system more often then not can be explained by the use of the vehicle or due to casting sand in the manufactoring process(however, those are statistically lower in frequency then stuck EGR valves which cause overboost etc).

These newer diesels you have to know special things about them. They have had technology that is either brand spanking new(DPF(2008) and Urea Injection(2011)) put on them that isn't on other vehicles or they have "new to the diesel engine" technology put on them(EGR system). None of those are mistakes or "gremlins" to the system, they are there under federal regulation(now rather or not you like them being there or believe they should be there that's different). But you can't operate a diesel vehicle the same way due to those systems and you have to know how to work around that.

Just like it had to be known that 08s and later needed ULSD fuel instead of the LSD, otherwise the filters would plug up and then the injectors would crap out on you. Not so much of an issue now, but when ULSD first came out it was a big issue, despite ford putting ULSD fuel only everywhere it could and even having it on owner DVDs as well.

 

[FlaDon]

I wouldn't call the EGR system a fault. The TTY bolts is a fault, but the EGR system is not a fault. No one like it, but there are numerous people that have issue free EGR systems(on the internet, you really just hear about the ones that have issues because they are on the internet trying to find solutions). Those that do have issues with the EGR system more often then not can be explained by the use of the vehicle or due to casting sand in the manufactoring process(however, those are statistically lower in frequency then stuck EGR valves which cause overboost etc).

These newer diesels you have to know special things about them. They have had technology that is either brand spanking new(DPF(2008) and Urea Injection(2011)) put on them that isn't on other vehicles or they have "new to the diesel engine" technology put on them(EGR system). None of those are mistakes or "gremlins" to the system, they are there under federal regulation(now rather or not you like them being there or believe they should be there that's different). But you can't operate a diesel vehicle the same way due to those systems and you have to know how to work around that.

Just like it had to be known that 08s and later needed ULSD fuel instead of the LSD, otherwise the filters would plug up and then the injectors would crap out on you. Not so much of an issue now, but when ULSD first came out it was a big issue, despite ford putting ULSD fuel only everywhere it could and even having it on owner DVDs as well.

The type of Diesel fuel problem was known long ago. The problem first made itself known when low sulphur became available. Those of us who burned it got notices from the OEMs that seals and rubber parts were breaking down and that parts would have to change. Some manufacturers set the ULSD ratings as what their parts had to meet while others didn't.

 

[tex25025]

The type of Diesel fuel problem was known long ago. The problem first made itself known when low sulphur became available. Those of us who burned it got notices from the OEMs that seals and rubber parts were breaking down and that parts would have to change. Some manufacturers set the ULSD ratings as what their parts had to meet while others didn't.

Your talking about a different instance. You are correct, but your its a precursor to what I'm talking about.

 

[ModMech]

The International version of the Ford 6.0L is the VT365, it actually has HIGER MEP than the Ford varient and ZERO HG or headbolt issues.

In almost every case, a leaking HG in a VT365 can be followed back to an overheat, low coolant or overspeed event. Not EVERY case mind you, but nearly so.

The EGR coolers are only an issue because of contamination in the coolant that restritcs flow thru the oil and EGR coolers causing abnormally high temperatures in the EGR cooler leading to boiling of the coolant (puking).

Another wonderful thing is when the injectors are not completely torqued in the head causing the injector tubes to leak combustion into the cooling system. Again, often misdiagnosed as a bad HG, head, EGR cooler etc. Great.

No engine, gas or diesel will operate "a couple of hundred thousand miles without any major expense", well at least not the mosts of them. Parts fail, it does NOT mean they are defective, it may be, but more likely the part wore out. Wear is inevitable and the more parts you put into a vehicle (emissions, power locks, etc) the more opportunity for failure you have.

If companies made SIMPLE vehicles that were reliable, no one would buy them because they would be underpowered, plain and you'd not get power locks, power steering, AC or a fancy radio with MP3 inputs. The cost of all these features is more opportunity for failure and unfortunately sometimes with a big bill.

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

I'm aware that the failure is the torque to yield of the bolts not the gaskets themselves. I also understand that the casting sand is the culprit. Ford should of recalled and added coolant filters to these trucks right off. Ford should also work with owner of completely stock 6.0 with head bolt failures. As for the turbo's issues I'm using an edge insight so I know exactly what the temps are. As the other poster said if these trucks should not need any special mods for there premium price. No question the 6.4 is even more complicated. I also understand it isn't the manufacture's desire to add these things to the engines. But the due owe it to the customers to make them reliable and problem free(with regular maintenance) for 200k or so. The ironic part about the head bolt failure's is fords position. If the truck is under warranty they use the same darn bolts. These engineer's 100% know that they need aftermarket studs torqued properly. But if they admit this then they're liable for all the failure's. I mean come on here were not talking there economy focus were talking 50k sticker. Not exactly small potato's. Even though I know the engine well you should need to be mech inclined to own it.
It should perform as it should for the consumer without shelling out all kinds of extra money.

Matt