Diesel versus gas maintance

[rswyan]

mod mech diesel does not wash the walls down but gas does.

Huh ?

Crankcase dilution

Wet Stacking

if idling puts diesel into the oil, then why does the oil level in my diesels not go up?

So then ..... does the oil level go up in any gas vehicles/engines you own ?

i have seen bearing out in turbo's with oil cooked on them.

Certainly can, and does, happen.

Cummins recommends a minimum of, I think, 30 seconds of idling for turbo cool down prior to turning off the engine in my RAM ..... and much longer if the engine has been working hard ....

ups trucks must not have turbos or they would be idled down.

UPS's practice of shutting off vehicles may have more to do with the potential liabilities of having a running vehicle unattended, without a person in it. I know without a doubt that this is certainly the case, at least to some extent, for Fedex .....

I don't know if UPS trucks are NA or blown ..... but I'm sure that if there were any significant potential maintenance issues it would be factored into how they they are operating.

 

[crazyal]

Maybe I shouldn't wade into this but around here in the winter it's common for a truck to idle all night long in -40 temps because you will not start it in the morning if it can't be plugged in. How many truck stops do you drive by at night and see trucks idling all night long. Good, bad, I don't know.

What I do know is if it was me and I was looking for a truck that would tow equipment down the road a few miles so I would have to drive the equipment there then I would just go with gas.

 

[ModMech]

mod mech diesel does not wash the walls down but gas does.

Your opinion is based on what, because it's wrong.

i have seen bearing out in turbo's with oil cooked on them.

So have I, but it was not from not ideling enough!

ups trucks must not have turbos or they would be idled down.

Really, have you seen one?

if idling puts diesel into the oil,then why does the oil level in my diesels not go up?

You don't know? The engine burns more oil than the amount of added fuel, seems obvious.

the manuals on all my tractors says to idle the tractors down up to 5 minutes. do you think that i should listen to you over john deere ,cat ,caseih and mccormick?

The OP was asking about a PICKUP and I ahve been very clear that if the engine was just worked hard, you SHOULD allow some cool-down.

What I also said was in response to ideling while running into a store, waiting in a parking lot, going to the shop for a clip or pin, you should not idle the engine. Apparently people are confusing cool-down with needless ideling.

 

[PSDStu]

If you have/want to idle your 7.3 for any length of time you can purchase the factory AIC (Aux Idle Controller) pretty cheap on E-bay and it mounts/plugs into a factory plug under the dash.

This allows you to increase the engine rpm from idle to around 1500 Max I think, but cn also be set to lower rpm's.

I use the AIC in my 97, 7.3 when I need/want to have the engine running above idle for extended periods of time.

 

[davkir]

Not entirely relevant, but the new Freightliners automatically shut down if they idle without any movement for more then 5 minutes.

 

[ModMech]

Not entirely relevant, but the new Freightliners automatically shut down if they idle without any movement for more then 5 minutes.

That feature has been available for about 15 years, many dealers are now stocking units with this and even more fleets are demanding it. MB, Cummins, International and DD all offer this feature on every engine. The time can be set from as little as two minutes to hundreds of minutes before the shut down. There are even "tamper-proof" settings to out-wit even the most determined operators from fooling the system and preventing a shut-down.

As fuel gets more costly and it will, expect almost every truck to behave this way.

 

[newbury]

It is also involved with anti-pollution laws.

However my '09 VW JSW TDI only burns .1L PER HOUR when idling, so I'll idle it all night.

 

[sandman2234]

Maybe I shouldn't wade into this but around here in the winter it's common for a truck to idle all night long in -40 temps because you will not start it in the morning if it can't be plugged in. How many truck stops do you drive by at night and see trucks idling all night long. Good, bad, I don't know.

What I do know is if it was me and I was looking for a truck that would tow equipment down the road a few miles so I would have to drive the equipment there then I would just go with gas.

I don't do -40 but in 0 or above, you won't catch me idleing a truck. I don't sleep well in a truck that is running due to the vibrations, and would rather cover up more than run the heater. I started this practice in 1997 after parking a bobtail all night at a customers while they loaded the trailer. Seems our shop had left the oil fill cap off in Tifton, Ga and I ran it all the way to Ohio pumping oil and then idle'd it all night. I woke up, put the truck in gear, and started to go p/u my loaded trailer. I glanced in the rearview mirror and immediately hit the kill switch, as there was a puddle of oil a little bigger than the size of the truck. (showed up on that sheet of ice I was sitting on)Put 3 gallons in it and it didn't bring it up to the dipstick. The oil level shutdown failed to operate, and it is a miracle that I didn't burn that truck up. So my rule became, not in it, shut it down if at all possible. I sleep better without it running, but there are drivers who swear they can't sleep without the truck running, so I guess it is all in what you're used to.
However, interesting as idling discussions are, they have limited bearing on what is required as a maintance criteria.
David from jax

I know this isn't a truck buying forum, but the wife is rapidly tiring of waiting on me to buy a truck, simply because I have saved the cash for it, and she needs my Chevy p/u as a trade in for her well deserved new car that she has been promised. So today she drags me to a local dealer to look at a 97 F-350 SRW 4x4 4 door auto. Truck was ok, but I asked for the GVW and GCVWR on it, and realized that it didn't have nearly enough to do the required job of hauling my tractors, so after spending an afternoon looking at trucks and a couple of cars (for her) we came home empty handed, but armed with more information about both. So I am back to waiting on the original truck that a friend has, and has replaced, but hasn't put it out to pasture (for me to buy).Buying a truck with a known history is starting to look even better, the more I look for a truck.

 

[Soundguy]

i find it hard to sleep in a running truck too though I'm not a truck driver.

I sometimes make a ulti-state 'red-eye' trip perhaps 1-2 every 1-2 years, genwerally take a buddy driver with me... we do 5-6hr shifts swapping drivers when we stop for fuel or a sandwich.. eat a lil then swap drivers and try to grab a few winks.. usually I can manage 2-3 hrs max out of that 6hr downtime..

soundguy

 

[sandman2234]

i find it hard to sleep in a running truck too though I'm not a truck driver.

I sometimes make a ulti-state 'red-eye' trip perhaps 1-2 every 1-2 years, genwerally take a buddy driver with me... we do 5-6hr shifts swapping drivers when we stop for fuel or a sandwich.. eat a lil then swap drivers and try to grab a few winks.. usually I can manage 2-3 hrs max out of that 6hr downtime..

soundguy

I understand that! I went back into trucking after a couple years off, and started out teaching at a school, then the school moved to Orlando, so I went while I finished my Instructor's license. After that, I figured if I was going to be gone all week, I might as well make the money real truckers make, so i started training the students out of the school in order to finalize their training. Dispatcher's figure if there are two people assigned to a truck, they must be able to run 24/7 and it is a MAJOR challenge to be able to sleep the first couple of weeks while you break in a new student. Try sleeping with a stranger driving that you know can't handle the rig your driving!!! Makes power naps an art!
I understand about hitting the road for a quick trip to retrieve an item or a vehicle. Worse one I had was a firearm purchase that the seller was supposed to bring to Florida and at the last minute told me he was leaving for California and I had 24 hours to figure out what to do about it, and that he didn't have time to ship it. Since he had 4k of my money, the only thing left to do was fuel up the wife's Blazer and hit the road with my co-driver. We were back from DC before the 24 hours was up that he gave me to pick it up.6 on 6 off but should really do 5 because the 5 in the early morning gets LONG. My wife says men handle traveling fine, it is renting a motel room that they don't understand, lol!!
David from jax

 

[sandman2234]

If what I have figured out from what you guys tell me, if I drive 30,000 miles a year, then it is going to cost me around $600 to cover oil and air filter changes plus buying a spare CPS sensor to stash in the glovebox. Does this sound about right? Add in another 6K for fuel and such and your approaching 6500 in fuel costs.
David from jax

 

[franklinute]

I think 30k miles driven maintenance will be closer to $1,000. Don't forget 2-3 fuel filters, 1 trans filter and fluid, 5 or 6 engine oil and filter, 1 air filter & a whole list of little items grease jobs, tire rotations etc.
When you reach the 50-60k miles then figure time for new tires, brake repair is coming, coolant replacement is coming etc.
On my 7.3 I keep a log of fuel purchase and miles driven. Overall I get 14 mpg. Lots of farm driving and hauling.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I plan on tires every 35K. I have had 4 diesel trucks and maintain a few others and even with rotations every other oil change its just what I get. Granted, I do 90% pulling at or over max rating.

Chris

 

[ModMech]

If what I have figured out from what you guys tell me, if I drive 30,000 miles a year, then it is going to cost me around $600 to cover oil and air filter changes plus buying a spare CPS sensor to stash in the glovebox. Does this sound about right? Add in another 6K for fuel and such and your approaching 6500 in fuel costs.
David from jax

You should need 6 oil changes ~ $90/ea = $540.
You should replace the fuel filter twice ~ $35 = $70

CPS = $35

Fuel = Driver and truck dependant, but $6k is a good estimate unless you have a lifted 4x4 or are constantly dragging a trailer, then $8k would be more appropriate.

Ford specifies a service interval of 5,000 miles and this is a good interval!

 

[sandman2234]

I think 30k miles driven maintenance will be closer to $1,000. Don't forget 2-3 fuel filters, 1 trans filter and fluid, 5 or 6 engine oil and filter, 1 air filter & a whole list of little items grease jobs, tire rotations etc.
When you reach the 50-60k miles then figure time for new tires, brake repair is coming, coolant replacement is coming etc.
On my 7.3 I keep a log of fuel purchase and miles driven. Overall I get 14 mpg. Lots of farm driving and hauling.

The current owner also keeps a log and I plan on continueing that paperwork. I did forget to add in the tranny oil changes but no filter in a standard transmission. Tires and tire rotations also were left out as well as grease jobs.
Since there are six tires, is there a typical rotation of which tires go to which position? I would assume that inside rear to the front, o/s rear to the inside rear and front to the o/s rear.
What frequency would standard transmisson oil changes be required? Anybody know what the capacity is and what weight oil is in them?
Another question is what is the expected lifespan of the six speed transmission? How about replacement costs, when it goes. Hopefully with my years of manual transmission driving, and a little luck (and some good maintance) this one will last past it's expected lifespan, whatever that is.
I had a 71 F 350 that we did an engine change on, and the junkyard motor came out with a ceramic clutch, so we left it. Due to the excessive wear on the previous flywheel, I often wondered if that was a good decision, but I never had any problem with it.(we did use my flywheel). Has anyone ever had flywheel problems after changing to a ceramic clutch?
David from jax

 

[sandman2234]

One of my reasons for wanting to know extended costs is to be able to pay for the maitance as I use it, instead of needing to fund them as they surface. For normal truck useage, it kind of gets figured into the budget, but since I own tractors that I really don't absolutely have to have, and hauling them to the shop and our property 120 miles away really isn't a gotta do, since it is cheaper just to pay somebody to mow the property in Ga. rather than doing it myself. However, since I enjoy my tractor time, it allows me a little bit of leeway in my expenditures, but if I drop a bombshell on the wife, she might balk, which is why my planning keeps me tractoring. So far we are running around $0.22 cents per mile, which is $0.03 cheaper than the budgeted amount for the 1971 Ford F-350 (390cu"). I did well with that quarter per mile on that truck including a rearend and a motor changeout, but I did have some serious connections back then, which included a towing service friend who has passed away. Whenever I pay bills, I just add a check to the maintance account for the miles I have driven, and forget it. Keeps me out of trouble, and the wife happy because it is justifiable and not much money each month, but adds up quickly.
David from jax

 

[ModMech]

Air filters are "as indicated" by the restriction gauge, DO NOT over service air filters! The dirtier they are the better they filter. The restriction gauges are VERY VERY sensative to restriction, far more than one would suspect, so use them.

The manual trans oil change is every 100K or something, no reason at all to do it early with a good driver. I believe it would be a total waste of time and $$$.

Grease, this should be included in the oil change cost, in fact if you read the list of items they check or service most places include "greasing lubrication points". If it's a DYI thing, count on about $8/year for the tube or two you will need.

Tires, rotation depends on the tires you have. Generally the fronts and RR wear fastest, IF you rotate on a good schedule (5k or 10k) then anything that seems to make sense to you will work. If that is extended, I suggest keeping the tires on the same side all the time to avoind possible belt issues.

If you have steer tires in front and M&S tires in the rear, rotate the front seperately for obvious reasons and the rears inner to outer on the opposite side. This has proven to be a good option for even wear.

 

[clemsonfor]

You should be happy with your new truck. That vintage motor is (IMHO) the best that Ford ever offered. You'll spend a few more bucks on maint. (than gas) but mostly to make it last, not to make it run! It will take 17 qts with a filter change (allways) and keeping up on your fuel filter will add years of life/hrs to your (expensive) fuel system. I've got/seen the 7.3 with 7000+hrs and still going. And one thing that the new diesels can't do that the 7.3 can is run on heating oil! I use one off road and run red fuel only in it.

This is because offroad heating oil and onroad are all the same. All though some areas are still LSD instead of ULSD but that vintage motor can run them all.

 

[sandman2234]

The first diesel truck p/u that took notice of had a 7.3, pre turbo, as the driver was straining peanut oil from a french fryer in order to save from the rising cost ($1.30) of diesel. I wondered just how bad it was on the motor.
David from jax

 

[Soundguy]

I hear ya. sometimes you are in a situation and just have to hop in and go.

I was at work one night and a buddy called me and told me of a killer deal on a real cheap tractor in lousianna.. he had worked out the price and deal to buy it. it was kind of a rare model.. and priced way low. his financing fell thru, and at that machines price, other were showing up to buy it the next day. I got off work that night at 11pm.. got home by 11:30, had called a buddy to meet me at my house. he got there first and got my trailer hitched for me. We left before midnight and drove 75 to 10 and across .. got there the next morning just about 20m before the business opened. had breakfast at some dive of a roadside diner in a post katrina devestated area ( no diesel for sale!!.. I had taken 4 5g cans inthe back of the truck for emergency ).. got the tractor and was headed back home after being in lousiana for only a couple hours..

another similar thing happened. me driving buddy's BIL and familly broke down on the way home from a trip and were stuck in georgia.. again..I got off work at 11, my buddy had got to my house and walked my dogs, hitched my trailer, and picked up a bag of fast food for us to eat on the way. by midnight were heading up 75 to go pull em home. another friend drove up an hour ahead of us in a mini van and got the sister and kids home. the BIL stayed with the van ( 350 stretch conversion van ) to guard it till we got there. used the spare battery from my winch to get the truck to crawl up on the trailer.

was a bit of a trip but we got em home.

soundguy

I understand that! I went back into trucking after a couple years off, and started out teaching at a school, then the school moved to Orlando, so I went while I finished my Instructor's license. After that, I figured if I was going to be gone all week, I might as well make the money real truckers make, so i started training the students out of the school in order to finalize their training. Dispatcher's figure if there are two people assigned to a truck, they must be able to run 24/7 and it is a MAJOR challenge to be able to sleep the first couple of weeks while you break in a new student. Try sleeping with a stranger driving that you know can't handle the rig your driving!!! Makes power naps an art!
I understand about hitting the road for a quick trip to retrieve an item or a vehicle. Worse one I had was a firearm purchase that the seller was supposed to bring to Florida and at the last minute told me he was leaving for California and I had 24 hours to figure out what to do about it, and that he didn't have time to ship it. Since he had 4k of my money, the only thing left to do was fuel up the wife's Blazer and hit the road with my co-driver. We were back from DC before the 24 hours was up that he gave me to pick it up.6 on 6 off but should really do 5 because the 5 in the early morning gets LONG. My wife says men handle traveling fine, it is renting a motel room that they don't understand, lol!!
David from jax