Buying Advice Disappearing Tractor Brands

[Builder]

I can understand how "major brands with reputations for quality are the way to protect your hard earned money..." but how did buying a Kubota in 1969 (the year Kubota began exporting to the US) support your country unless you were Japanese? NOW with all Kubota does over here I suppose it could be called patriotic to buy orange, but the same thing could be true for some of the "new brands" a few years from now. That was a chance I was willing to take by investing in a less costly brand of tractor from a major manufacturer trying to break into the American market.

You're 1/2 right.

Buying Kubota doesn't do the "support your country" part to the degree something like buying Deere would, BUT it does protect your hard earned money, because it's a well built tractor, it has good resale value and at least the company opened plants in the US to build some of its' products.

Buying a chinese tractor neither protects your hard earned money because you've purchased something that has poor resale value, will probably be able to get parts for and doesn't support your country, either becuase you're buying from a hostile country that doesn't allow freedom for its' people and tries its hardest to screw with us here at home.

 

[LittleBlueTractor]

You're 1/2 right.

Buying Kubota doesn't do the "support your country" part to the degree something like buying Deere would, BUT it does protect your hard earned money, because it's a well built tractor, it has good resale value and at least the company opened plants in the US to build some of its' products.

Buying a chinese tractor neither protects your hard earned money because you've purchased something that has poor resale value, will probably be able to get parts for and doesn't support your country, either becuase you're buying from a hostile country that doesn't allow freedom for its' people and tries its hardest to screw with us here at home.

I must have misunderstood your original point. Anyway, my LS is from South Korea so at least it's a friendlier country than China.

 

[Builder]

I must have misunderstood your original point. Anyway, my LS is from South Korea so at least it's a friendlier country than China.

Some stuff you can't get around, like electronics, but you can buy a tractor from other than China.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Fresh humiliation for euro zone as China says it will bail out debt-ridden nations | Mail Online

Risk of buying a China tractor may have just decreased.

"China's astonishing economic growth has put it on track to overtake America as the world's economic powerhouse within two years, a recent report claimed..."

Loaning $5 trillion to Europe seems to indicate the Chinese have learned to play Monopoly quite well. The world will one day be owned by China if it calls in all of its loans. After keeping our eyes on Russia for all those years I guess we just did not see this coming.

A non producing nation will always loose out to a producing nation. I guess we did not see that coming either. UI payments can keep coming as long as we can borrow the money from China.

 

[Builder]

China can have the title to making or having the most of everything. I could care less. McD's sells the most burgers, but they taste terrible. China has well over a billion people, but that get's them nowhere. Ford sells the most trucks, but they include truck lines the competition doesn't build, so how could they lose?

Now I agree with you the money/debt issues are scary, but I still won't buy a 1950's era technology tractor built by their peasant population.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

China can have the title to making or having the most of everything. I could care less. McD's sells the most burgers, but they taste terrible. China has well over a billion people, but that get's them nowhere. Ford sells the most trucks, but they include truck lines the competition doesn't build, so how could they lose?

Now I agree with you the money/debt issues are scary, but I still won't buy a 1950's era technology tractor built by their peasant population.

It will be interesting if they build their fleet of aircraft carriers using 1950's technology.

I agree China needs to borrow more tractor technology before they will be based on current technology. Actually the 1950's technology is not as much of a risk as is parts and service down the road.

 

[IH3444]

As for market share, Kubota and Deere pretty well got things wrapped up and by all accounts I've ever seen they've added market share in the last 2-3 years (probably at the expense of New Holland.. the new LS deal may change that as CNH goes head to head with the value brands). The real challange will come once Tier 4 drops down to 25Hp in a few years.

Emission Standards: USA: Nonroad Diesel Engines

Neil, how are they going to check this for small cuts? Looks like it will be an after exhaust port particule collector, plus CAT of some kind. Are they going to have electronic controller over injection pump arrangement? The did help the Volkswagen TDI gain MPG, but when it breaks, it's expensive.

 

[Bill Williams]

Merry Christmas to you all. I started this thread to get maybe one or two posts back telling me which brands are getting ready to sink out of sight and guide me to making a great first tractor purchase in the weeks to come. I get a feeling that we are all a little disturbed by the import trends and how they all have affected our lives. It is hard for me to accept that other countries do things better than we can- maybe cheaper-but not better. I believe in our country and hope you all do too. If you go shopping for anything it seems like if it isn't made in China then its made in Bangladesh or some other country where we either have shed blood or sent them billions in aid. The thanks we have received from those countries is nothing more than staggering unemployment in our country and despair. We all need to cling together in these tough times and demand our leaders lead. Now back to my thread. It seems like the consensus is to stick to the brands we know, with local dealers, and not care about where they get their machines and parts made. I hope for better things in the future and will do my part to see that that will happen-

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Bill the China rule of the world will be brief if it even happens. Tractor production will come back to the US or move to Africa. It is hard to beleive but their one kid policy has worked so well the average age of the population is really increasing.

In talking with a lady who just returned from visiting her aging parents she said to eat out now cost more than in the states and the price of electronics was the same as the same TV cost in our local WM. She said inflation was so bad the government is giving the retired people money to help offset inflation. We know once started the hand outs will be expected into the future.

20-30 years down the road they will have relative few working compared to those who are retired.

India is in trouble like much of Europe due to the fact by the end of the century due to rate of population/illegal aliens of non Indian people means they will have a change of government that typically is anti business.

Japan was going to walk all over us in the 80's but then they lost their edge and build many of their lines of cars right here in the USA and went into a nose dive at home in the 90's.

The USA is down in the dumps today but people are waking up. The 15 year olds today know more about government and our problems than I did at 30. If we can just keep our forum of government in place the PEOPLE can reverse things. What happened last month will be repeated election after election until we see the right kind of change. The Red and the Blue are both in trouble with the people if things do not get turned around fast.

China is growing so fast and it is so big the smallest mistakes can have huge negative results. There is not a lot of press about it but some jobs are returning from China each month. $200 per barrel oil prices will make things hard for us but it could destroy China's ability to compete on the world market. Putting earnings into building a fleet of aircraft carriers to make work will hurt their growing in the business sector and grow the size of their government payroll.

Have you looked hard at your used options? There are a lot of used lines of tractors that will be worth more 10 years from now I expect. The new China tractors I expect will be worth less in 10 years then they sell for today.

One big coming change is we will see building tractors for $15 an hour is better than building fewer and fewers at $30 per hour. Service jobs are relative low paying people are learning. We have to start making stuff again in the USA. The cost structure will adjust until that happens.

China workers are just about where we were 100 years ago when we were excited about make $5 a day building cars. Greed did us in and the same thing will happen in China. Getting "stuff" can mess with the mind. :licking:

Things always go full circle. The most free people will long term have the edge. We just have to make sure we stay the most free from insiders and outsiders. :thumbsup:

 

[toddmo17]

Here's my $.02. I purchased a used compact utility tracotr a couple of years ago and got a Deere. My friends purchased a new Montana a few years before so I learned by what they went through. My friend can do more maintenance than I can so I wanted a dealer close by. His dealer was a little farther away and then closed down. I'm guessing he can get parts but he will have to work harder at it than I will. Deere was within 15 miles, Kubota and New Holland were about 30 miles away so that made a difference. I would expect parts to continue to be available for quite a while from any of the top brands. I also got what I consider a great deal on a lightly used tractor (3 years old with 80 hours). I got a more power, a FEL, a rear blade, and a backhoe for what I would have paid for the smaller model with just a FEL if I purchased new. I found there are some great deals on low hour machines. It seems tractors are either low hours or very high time with little in between. Low hour demos machines are from dealers or someone who got it for a specific job and is done with it. I also scouted the local dealer to see if I liked them. I watched them with other customers and got a feel for the place. It made a difference to me. So I just put a list together that made sense for me. Local dealer (as local as possible), an established brand with on-going parts availability, a dealer I liked, and a low hours used tractor with extra attachments. Your list may be different based on your priorities, but taking small steps to understand what I wanted ended up being a good way for me to go and I am still happy with my purchase.

 

[Qapla]

Another thing to keep in mind ...

many of the "new" tractor owners are those who have recently bought and moved to acreage. That means many of them are used to living in a city or urban area, That means that "local" carries the idea that it is within 10-15 minutes or less.

People have become used to a convenience store on every corner and a Walmart, Home Depot and Lowe's within minutes of them.

To those of us who have lived in the country (on acreage) for many years, or even our whole life (sometimes multiple generations) know that "local" has a different meaning. I know that for us, when we got a Walmart less than 30 minutes away, that was a big deal.

We consider a tractor dealer to be "local" if it is within 1- 1.5 hours away. That may seem like a long way, but tractor dealers are not like Walmart or minute markets. They serve a large area from their location and those of us who have long lived on acreage understand this.

Once you load the tractor onto the trailer and hitched it to the truck, going 30 minutes, 1 hour or even a bit longer is not that big of a deal. After all, some of us haul them further than that to get from one piece of acreage to another.

All I am trying to say is, if your dealers are more than 10 minutes from home, don't get discouraged ... they serve larger areas then other types of businesses.

As for the original question, I still maintain - avoid Farmtrac and Montana.

 

[Bill Williams]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I think that my best course of action is to buy used as many of you have suggested. I have noticed that there is a large number of low hour machines and high hour machines and few in between. Actually I am quite surprised at the number of low hour machines. I also am looking at frame and tire size since there seems to be an overlap in stepped up lawn care/estate oriented tractors models and general purpose tractors which many of you have commented on. Is there much of a difference in Ag tires versus R4 in terms of traction? I need traction.?

 

[TripleR]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I think that my best course of action is to buy used as many of you have suggested. I have noticed that there is a large number of low hour machines and high hour machines and few in between. Actually I am quite surprised at the number of low hour machines. I also am looking at frame and tire size since there seems to be an overlap in stepped up lawn care/estate oriented tractors models and general purpose tractors which many of you have commented on. Is there much of a difference in Ag tires versus R4 in terms of traction? I need traction.?

You can literally spend days reading on this subject.

We own tractors with Ag, Industrial and Turf and all have their use. For traction, Ag is the hands down winner especially in mud or in soft ground or that has already been worked.

 

[Builder]

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I think that my best course of action is to buy used as many of you have suggested. I have noticed that there is a large number of low hour machines and high hour machines and few in between. Actually I am quite surprised at the number of low hour machines. I also am looking at frame and tire size since there seems to be an overlap in stepped up lawn care/estate oriented tractors models and general purpose tractors which many of you have commented on. Is there much of a difference in Ag tires versus R4 in terms of traction? I need traction.?

Then you want R-1's. I have 3 tractors, 2 with R-4's, 1 with R-1's. The r-4's are a good all-purpose tire and they are tougher, too. R-1's have paddle-like bars on the tires that power through soft dirt or mud. Jury still seems to be out on snow, but R-1's are better in DEEP snow.

I think you're on the right track buying a brand name used over a new "fringe" or chinese brand.

 

[Builder]

Here's my $.02. I purchased a used compact utility tracotr a couple of years ago and got a Deere. My friends purchased a new Montana a few years before so I learned by what they went through. My friend can do more maintenance than I can so I wanted a dealer close by. His dealer was a little farther away and then closed down. I'm guessing he can get parts but he will have to work harder at it than I will. Deere was within 15 miles, Kubota and New Holland were about 30 miles away so that made a difference. I would expect parts to continue to be available for quite a while from any of the top brands. I also got what I consider a great deal on a lightly used tractor (3 years old with 80 hours). I got a more power, a FEL, a rear blade, and a backhoe for what I would have paid for the smaller model with just a FEL if I purchased new. I found there are some great deals on low hour machines. It seems tractors are either low hours or very high time with little in between. Low hour demos machines are from dealers or someone who got it for a specific job and is done with it. I also scouted the local dealer to see if I liked them. I watched them with other customers and got a feel for the place. It made a difference to me. So I just put a list together that made sense for me. Local dealer (as local as possible), an established brand with on-going parts availability, a dealer I liked, and a low hours used tractor with extra attachments. Your list may be different based on your priorities, but taking small steps to understand what I wanted ended up being a good way for me to go and I am still happy with my purchase.

A great first post. Very revealing & informative. My experiences were similar.
I bought an '05 "Challenger" brand tractor ~3 years ago. What a deal I got. A 48HP CUT tractor with ~150 hours with 4WD, Cab w/AC, loader all in great condition for $14,000. The down side was that Caterpillar started Challenger about 10 years ago, but then sold it to AGCO. AGCO then proceeded to phase out Challenger tractors under 75HP, including mine.

I was lucky to sell it for $19,500 to someone who really wanted it, but I always had in the back of my mind that parts would be difficult to get in the future. I replaced it with a larger M series Kubota which I have no doubt will be easier to get parts/service for.

Some guys won't hesitate to buy a Chinese, gray market or discontinued brand because they can get it cheap. I never liked doing that because of parts issues & diminished resale value in case you want to upgrade or sell.

 

[foggy1111]

I recently went through a tractor replacement exercise. Mostly I needed to upgrade for better loader performance and wanted a hydro tranny for use with my new grapple....and some more hydraulic options.

I can afford a new tractor....but I only put 100 hours or so on a tractor each year....and I want good value in a machine (OK....I admit it...Im tight ). I priced a new JD tractor equipped like I wanted.....but my dealers were simply too proud of the color. I decided I would rather own more implements that pay for the 'new" in JD tractors.

I shopped a couple other brands that are trying to gain market share via some pretty attractive prices (Bobcat & Yanmar/CC)....but had a hard time warming up to their products....and parts and service are considerably farther away from me. BUT...similar equipment (to JD) from these other brands was 40% less!! :shocked: Yikes! (Seems its hard to have your cake and eat it too. )

In the end, I chose a lightly used Deere in the same price area as the other new brands......as the parts and service are readily available and the quality met my expectations. Also, used green paint is easy to sell if you ever want to make a change. :thumbsup:

I bought a new grapple and a new stump grinder and still have lots of spending money for more implements if I need em. And.....you couldn't tell my used tractor from a new one. :2cents:

Check Tractorhouse.com for price comparisons....IMO.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

When buying something that may be around another 50 years with a few years and 100's of hours on itcan mean nothing but more money in the pocket long term.

If the next generation is not as tractor loving as many of us one wonders if there will not be a glut of new like tractors going to market over the next 20 years.

 

[Bill Williams]

I hope all of you are having a Merry Christmas. I think that you all have saved me some money and hopefully some wear and tear on my high mileage high hour body.

 

[goatman 1]

Bill, depending Where you are located in Western NC, your decision on brand, whether new or used, might logically be influenced by the availability and quality of local dealers. Where I live in WNC, an hiur to an hour and a half is the norm. I also agree to stick with the well known brands. I have had Kubota and John deere, and excep for the high priced green parts, service and dependability are similar. A good used tractor will service you probably for the rest of your life. If you need to chat, 828-494-3584

 

[Builder]

Check Tractorhouse.com for price comparisons....IMO.

I've bought/sold at least 20 pieces of equipment on that website. Very good sell/buy tool.