Disappointed in my Deere for the first time.

[Gary_in_Indiana]

First, let me say that up until now I've been very happy with my tractor. Today I was using my box blade and broke a piece off my rear axle housing to which my lower three point arm attaches. I was shocked beyond words to find that my entire rear axle housing is cast aluminum instead of steel! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

To say that I was shocked and disappointed doesn't even begin to describe it. I have come to expect more from Deere than this and, quite frankly, I think I have a right to. All I can think is, to paraphrase a country song lyric, "What were they thinking?" This is a tractor axle housing, not some child's toy or decorative knick-knack.

If it was steel a) it probably wouldn't have broken and b) if it did break I could weld it back on. I called my Deere dealer and found there's no shortcut of which he's aware, though he is checking for me. Further, a new axle housing (still made of pot metal cast aluminum) is $1400 in the box. He guesstimated labor to be two and one half to three days minimum so there's another four figure expenditure because Deere cheaped out instead of using steel. Unbelievable!

 

[lynxpilot]

You capable of removing it? Cast aluminum can be brazed or welded if appropriate pre-/inprocess-/and post-heating is used. Can't imagine a local welder would charge anywhere near what your'e talking.

 

[To20Chris]

Aluminum can be a great material for some things, an engine block for example, but that sure doesn't seem like one of them. What would be the advantage over cast iron? In general, aluminum is more expensive than iron. It would be tough to make a cast aluminum housing that could stand the abuse that a good cast iron alloy will. Could the weight advantage really be that important?

 

[JATO_RaT]

Gary this has been discussed quite a bit in the past. Sunday evening I did much the same thing. I snapped my lower link connection while foolishly trying to move a massive embedded granite rock with my Kubota. I was backed into the rock and in low range. While lifting the 3 pt hitch, pulling in the hydraulic top link the rock lifted and as I was moving backwards, I heard a loud pop. A drooping 1000 lb boxblade the result. I had broken a large piece of the cast iron housing that also is the attachment for the 3pt lower link. A bit mad at myself for doing what I knew I shouldn't, but also relieved that the part is a separate chunk of cast iron that is pretty easy to replace. I emailed TractorSmart, Ronnie the parts manager sent me several pages showing exactly how it's replaced, the part number and the cost. Monday evening I ordered it, Tuesday I got the confirmation it was ordered and today it was here. I paid $8.00 for shipping for a 39lb brake case (right side), sealant and an engine oil filter. The cast piece while a little expensive was not as bad as I had imagined, $215.00. I am incredibly impressed with Tractor Smart, unbelieveably great service. My lower link strut was what caused the attachment to fail (above and beyond my stupidity). As thick and stout as it is, I bent it enough to twist in its socket enough to basically pry the cast attachment point and with the right rear corner of the box blade pushing hard and all the leverage of the lower link and box applied, it fractured. OK, lesson learned. It took an awful lot for it to happen. I hope you can find someone to work with as incredible as TractorSmart, they are truly fantastic.

Here is the reply Ronnie gave me:

Mark,

The part broken is called the brake case RH part number TD050-28620 price 216.65
The liquid gasket sealant is part number 70000-74000 price $8.20 for 3.5 oz tube.

I did not see any seals that would need replacing in performing this operation.

It is going to be some what of a job to replace it.

Insurance? Maybe you have insurance on the tractor. If you financed it with Kubota you probably for sure have insurance.
Unless you are equipped with jack stands and a hoist just removing the rear wheel can be a pretty heavy job as they may be filled with fluid and would be very heavy.
Just wanted to mention the insurance from the stand point of you may get a dealer to do all the work and your deductible may not be any more than the part.

You can follow the directions below to download the parts manual on the
Kubota L3830 tractor.

Click the link below to go to our website and begin the download.

http://www.tractorsmart.com/Books/L3830DT.htm

http://www.tractorsmart.com/Books/L3830_BrakeCase.htm Pages from the shop manual.


When you open the parts book in Adobe Acrobat Reader the bookmarks on the
left side will take you to that page.
The picture of the parts will be first on your screen. The next page after
the picture will have the reference number and part numbers. Notice that the
heading at the top of the page is the same for the picture page and the
description page.

Please pay particular attention to any notes in the remarks or serial number
columns. Also any serial number reference at the top of the page.
If you intend to use our online ordering system (see link below).
http://www.tractorsmart.com/PartsBooksKubota/KubotaPriceList.asp
Remember that you are your own parts counter person and be certain of your
choice.
If you have any doubt as to the correct part number please email or call
before ordering.

Thanks
Ronnie Bowman parts@tractorsmart.com phone 1-423-928-4042

 

[To20Chris]

I'm confused - doesn't Gary have a JD?

 

[slowrev]

Yeah, I thought it was a JD as well.

 

[Dave4410]

I would have sworn he has a JD.

 

[JATO_RaT]

"I hope you can find someone to work with as incredible as TractorSmart, they are truly fantastic. "

I know there was a lot of verbage in there. I wanted to relate that I had the same experience and hoped he could find someone as good as I thought TractorSmart is. Thats pretty much it, plain and simple. Two guys, different tractors that did much the same thing, /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Utmost, I found your post very informative. While the differences between iron and aluminum are pretty drastic, I think you proved that both materials can fail.

Iron is a brittle metal but handles stress but often not shock; aluminum has a higher strength to weight ratio, but can be brittle as well, and handles stress differently and can fatigue under some circumstances.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Thanks Bob, you understood it in the spirit with which I intended. You are right about the metals.

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

For what it's worth, Maximum, I understood your first post just fine. Thank you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ironically, the first person to whom I spoke after this happened was my friendly Kubota dealer. He told me that the difference in materials used in the axle housings was one of the things Kubota stressed to their dealers as a competative advantage when selling against the Deere product. Like me, he can't imagine why Deere uses this material there, especially when this connection is a part of the axle housing itself. When I looked at the Kubota product there I found the same connection point was NOT a part of the axle housing and is, as Maximum pointed out, part of a far, far less expensive piece. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Gary_in_Indiana]

<font color="blue"> "Are you capable of removing it?"</font>

I'm afraid that a task like that is WAY outside my skill set. If need be, I can probably get a couple friends to do it if I keep the cold beers coming. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="blue"> "Cast aluminum can be brazed or welded if appropriate pre-/in-/post-process heating is used. I can't imagine a local welder would charge anywhere near what you're talking." </font>

I spoke with a couple farmer friends of mine tonight who are big fans of the Deere product. One (who also works as a mechanic for the local Caterpillar dealer) gave me the name of the local welder/machinist that Caterpillar uses for most of their sublet work. He told me if this piece can be welded, this is the guy who can do it.

I'm going to load my tractor up at first light and have it over at this guy's shop when he opens to find out if he thinks he can do it or not. At least that way I'll know if I have to order a new housing or not. I'll post something after I speak with him to let you know what the verdict is. Wish me luck. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[eee]

I registered to reply to your post.
I have a JD 4400 and I had the same thing happen to my tractor. I replaced both axle housings(this summer) and each housing was $275 apiece,I do not understand the $1400 price you were quoted.. The newer housings have more material around the hole where the lower 3pt attaches,and they are grooved where the roll bar bolts onto them.Also they are still cast aluminum. That is the only place on the tractor's housing that I am aware of that has cast aluminum,I took a magnet across everything else and it appears to be cast iron,I too am mystified why JD would use cast aluminum exclusively on the axle housings.This is a part that should wear and never have a problem with.
How many hours is on your tractor?
Do you have the old style front axle ?

 

[JATO_RaT]

Well that should be good news for Gary, both the cost and the idea of beefing up the metal around the connection.

 

[To20Chris]

Bob,

Cast iron can be brittle, compared to some materials I guess, but the characteristics of cast iron will vary greatly depending on the alloy and process. A good cast iron alloy can be very strong, and tougher and more impact resistant than you may think. Also, iron alloys and steel have cyclic failure resistance that aluminum does not. I can't imagine a better material for a rear axle housing.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I registered to reply to your post. )</font>
Welcome to tbn, excellant post, thanks for the insight!


TO20Chhris: </font><font color="blue" class="small">( I can't imagine a better material for a rear axle housing. )</font>

Which Steel, iron, or aluminum?

I am from Pittsburgh and even studied metallurgy. But I am a computer guy. But as much as I can recall from my metals days is: I sure would rather have aluminum done right, than iron done wrong.

The input from a Kubota dealer as to competitve advantage isn't necessarily all right on. Their job is to find real or perceived advantages...


Maximum_Utmost showed us that even an iron Kubota will fail (sure is nice that the TractorSmart folks are so helpful, that really is amazing how extensively they responded.)

As to parts pricing, it really helps me to look on JDParts.com. That way, I can look up and price parts myself, sometimes dealers add more margin, sometimes they quote the wrong part... It isn't hard to look them up yourself...

Hope yer able to get going again quickly Gary!!

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> Cast iron can be brittle, compared to some materials I guess, but the characteristics of cast iron will vary greatly depending on the alloy and process. A good cast iron alloy can be very strong, and tougher and more impact resistant than you may think. Also, iron alloys and steel have cyclic failure resistance that aluminum does not. I can't imagine a better material for a rear axle housing. </font>

Chris, not sure that I understand what you wrote or even where you agree/disagree with what I wrote. Cast iron, compared to steel or aluminum is brittle. Iron can be strong as heck too, but only if done correctly, it takes repetitive stress, but not shock and won't bend. Aluminum won't take the repetitive stressing for long periods of time, but those periods could be DECADES if it is designed correctly. See Maximum Utmost's example of cast iron failure, it seems that the failure of his cast iron part is very similar to the aluminum failure that started this thread. All I was trying to write is that BOTH material have their strenghts and weaknesses and point out that neither is inherantly better all the time. I think what I wrote is accurate and has been substantiated.

 

[eee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( <font color="green"> Welcome to tbn, excellant post, thanks for the insight! </font> )</font>

You are welcome !!!
I could not sit on the sidelines and not comment on the gentlemans problem.

 

[slowrev]

imho,
Tractor transmission housings and contents should ONLY be made from steel or cast iron. Axle housings should ONLY be steel.
Just my opinion for a sturdy long life tractor, but then I guess the manufacturers don't want them to last too long /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ben

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Ben, you may or may not have noticed, but I didn't take sides on this issue, I only pointed out that I thought Maximum Utmost's post showing that his cast iron housing broke was a good illustration of how both iron and aluminum can fail. From that point on it seemed like the debate started between iron & aluminum. FWIW, I'm pretty sure the rear housings of both of my CUTs are iron, but I'm not advocating that as better or worse. And as this thread shows, both aluminum & iron fail.