DIY logging

[Nwood]

Hi there,

Have large acreage of mixed woods in NH, (several hundred acres) last harvest was 1980ish before I got the property.
Love working in the woods, although the rocks and wet make it a real challenge. Locating trails can be a challenge between boulders, but it can be done. Had a cruise done on the property, and works out to 4500 bf/acre and 13 cords/acre.

Realistically I have 2 full days/week to dedicate to woods work. Should I stick to just cutting my own firewood or take on some logging? Is DIY logging a paying enterprise or just a way to keep busy in the winter? I think the real payoff is in 20-40 years when the oaks and pines are filled out and ready for harvest.

Plan A
Get some suitable winching/forwarding equipment and become a part time logger. Realistically this would be firewood and pallet logs as TSI cut.

Plan B
Girdle or fell poor quality stems and let 'em rot. This would transfer growth to the high quality stems and I wouldn't have to beat myself up for firewood and pallet logs. Also could get a lot more of the improvement work done without having to remove the wood.

All marking for either scenario would be done with assistance of a forester.

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[ToadHill]

Right now I'm clearing out the beech on my 90 acres. Most has beech bark disease and I have been cutting and dragging it for 3 summers now. I have about 3 more summers work. Each year I've cut about 8 cord of wood. At the price of firewood in my area that's about $2200 per year. In honesty I only spend about 6 hours per week at this task.

I apply Roundup concentrate to the stump right after the tree falls since trials have demonstrated that this will kill the roots and stop root sprouting. ( only works on trees like beech that sprout from the roots.)

If you think you can recover some of your investment with the firewood and pulpwood cuts I'd stick with plan A.

 

[SFish]

Hi Nwood. I have a similar situation in northern California (160 acres of redwood, fir and tanoak) and I have decided on Plan C. That is, let the forest mature naturally. I really like naturally mature forest, but I have very little of it.

Even so, I have a lot of logging to do. I am clearing land for two houses and space for gardens, an orchard, and for fire protection, and this will easily develop enough timber for building. I am getting a Logosol mill to make lumber. I also use a lot of firewood. I really enjoy these activities.

I don't know what kind of tractor you have, but if you decide to do some logging I can highly recommend the Farmi winch. It is fast, safe, and makes it easy to skid. I also got a toothbar and bolt on grapple for my loader so I can stack logs. I don't know how I am going to handle the really big ones.

Steve

 

[Wesdor]

I purchased a logging arch this past summer and have found it to be a huge help for my situation - clearing about 40 acres of timber.

You might want to investigate the logging arch:

http://www.futureforestry.com/

 

[BigE_]

Only 4500 bf/acre? I logged 4 acres (actually, just thinned) and took out 56 million bf of lumber. Plus they left a *lot* behind (one of the reasons for me buying a tractor).

I can't imagine trying to do the logging myself and getting done in any decent amount of time. I had a crew out at my place for almost three weeks. 2 loggers felling the trees, 3 guys cleaning up the branches, 1 guy running the loader. Plus you have the guys running the log trucks.

I've been cleaning up the place for the past 11 months now -- haven't made too big of a dent, but I have tons of firewood, and now own a nice 6" hydraulic fed chipper plus a good 27 ton splitter.

With the addition of the tractor purchase, I am now definitely in the red for having logged, but I do have quite a few toys to show for it.

 

[SnowRidge]

Only 4500 bf/acre? I logged 4 acres (actually, just thinned) and took out 56 million bf of lumber. Plus they left a *lot* behind (one of the reasons for me buying a tractor).

I can't imagine trying to do the logging myself and getting done in any decent amount of time. I had a crew out at my place for almost three weeks. 2 loggers felling the trees, 3 guys cleaning up the branches, 1 guy running the loader. Plus you have the guys running the log trucks.

I've been cleaning up the place for the past 11 months now -- haven't made too big of a dent, but I have tons of firewood, and now own a nice 6" hydraulic fed chipper plus a good 27 ton splitter.

With the addition of the tractor purchase, I am now definitely in the red for having logged, but I do have quite a few toys to show for it.

56 million board feet in four acres. That can not be correct. Are you sure it wasn't 56 thousand board feet?

 

[hayden]

First thing I'd recommend is to get a forest management plan by a licensed forester. That will give you context for what should be cut when for optimum management of the land given YOUR priorities (any descent forested will spend time asking you about your goals before drafting a plan). These plans are typically required if you want to enroll the land in Current Use for reduced taxes.

Once you have a plan, you can figure out what to do yourself and what to hire out. I'm in a similar situation with some land I have in VT. So far, all I've done myself is opportunistically pull out firewood for my own use. From what I can tell so far, the challenge with getting more valuable logs our yourself is time and scale. If you cut too slowly, as in a little cutting on the weekends, you will probably have staining and other decay problem on logs before you've cut enough for a truck load. You will also have to go through the process of finding buyers, trucking the logs to them, etc. Plus you have the whole art of evaluating and bucking the logs to maximize mill value. My goal is to figure it all out and ultimately have the time to do it on more than weekends, but so far I've hired out significant cuts.

Everytime I cut, I'm amazed at how little I get done versus what I expect. Maybe it's just me, but the bottom line is that it's a lot of hard slow work. I'd suggest sticking to odds and ends like small quantities of firewood and perhaps some logs to mill for your own use.

You could check with the Society for the Protection of New Hampshire Forests - they have lots of resources for sound forest management.

 

[hayden]

56 million board feet in four acres. That can not be correct. Are you sure it wasn't 56 thousand board feet?

Yes, it must be Thousands of board feet. In logging "M" means thousand, same as in finance. I've never understood why M means thousands in one context, and Millions in another, but I didn't get to make the rules (which is probably a good thing)

 

[curly]

56 million board feet in four acres. That can not be correct. Are you sure it wasn't 56 thousand board feet?

I'm no logger, but my half way decent math skills say "No way"

 

[SnowRidge]

Yes, it must be Thousands of board feet. In logging "M" means thousand, same as in finance. I've never understood why M means thousands in one context, and Millions in another, but I didn't get to make the rules (which is probably a good thing)

Funny thing that. I've known quite a few loggers, and I can't think of one of them that spoke Latin?

 

[BigE_]

I'm no logger, but my half way decent math skills say "No way"

Well, now my math skills were pretty decent, but I honestly couldn't tell you exactly how they came up with that number. 56mbf is what I got paid for, so it is quite possible that it is 56 thousands of board feet. (Looking back, I always thought *million* was a little high, but what do I know?)

Either way, 4500bf per acre x several hundred acres is still a heck of a lot of wood to be pulling out in a few weeks by yourself.

 

[knute_m]

Yes, it must be Thousands of board feet. In logging "M" means thousand, same as in finance. I've never understood why M means thousands in one context, and Millions in another, but I didn't get to make the rules (which is probably a good thing)

The "M" comes from the Roman Numeral for 1000 (e.g., X = 10, C = 100, etc.). Since the Romans developed trade and commerce, their designations have been in common use for a couple of thousand years.

 

[hayden]

Well, now my math skills were pretty decent, but I honestly couldn't tell you exactly how they came up with that number. 56mbf is what I got paid for, so it is quite possible that it is 56 thousands of board feet. (Looking back, I always thought *million* was a little high, but what do I know?)

Either way, 4500bf per acre x several hundred acres is still a heck of a lot of wood to be pulling out in a few weeks by yourself.

Yes, MBF is "Thousand board feet".

 

[john_bud]

Realistically I have 2 full days/week to dedicate to woods work. Should I stick to just cutting my own firewood or take on some logging? Is DIY logging a paying enterprise or just a way to keep busy in the winter? I think the real payoff is in 20-40 years when the oaks and pines are filled out and ready for harvest.


Any thoughts?

Thanks

I was just reading in "Wisconsin Woodland Owners" monthly news letter that only deep underground mining is more dangerous than logging. Yet logging is the only activity that people with no training, no understanding of the risks nor how to avoid them, using poor or no safety equipement will just jump right in!

I have no knowledge of your expertise in scouting trees, grading, identifying dead from live trees, being able to determine stressed trees that may pop or barber chair, felling, limbing, skidding or any of the other hundred things a logger needs to do. You should check with a forester for a plan, have the trees to be cut marked. If you are going to cut them - get training on how to do it and buy the safety equipment. Chainsaw boots, pants, helmet, gloves and face shield at the least. Clear the work area and 3 escape paths for each tree. Buy and use wedges. If you don't already have a GOOD saw (Jonsered, Husky, Stilh) get the lightest professional one with the shortest bar. Expect to pay 3x what a box store saw will cost. If you are doing firewood, a 14-16" bar is all you need. You can drop a 30" tree with a 14" bar.

If you want to buy some neat toys, er tools, and maybe make a couple bucks, you may want to also get a band saw mill and turn the boards into lumber. You can make a very cheap solar dryer that will work in the winter (plans online). Or you can just fell, limb, buck, split and deliver firewood. Plan on clearing about 2.50 to 3.00 an hour! If you can sell arm load bundles of wood to campers or in town romantic fireplace burners, that's where the small operator makes $$. The big operations have firewood processors that can turn your acreage into stove sticks in no time.

jb

 

[Rara Avis]

I was just reading in "Wisconsin Woodland Owners" monthly news letter that only deep underground mining is more dangerous than logging. Yet logging is the only activity that people with no training, no understanding of the risks nor how to avoid them, using poor or no safety equipement will just jump right in!

I have no knowledge of your expertise in scouting trees, grading, identifying dead from live trees, being able to determine stressed trees that may pop or barber chair, felling, limbing, skidding or any of the other hundred things a logger needs to do. You should check with a forester for a plan, have the trees to be cut marked. If you are going to cut them - get training on how to do it and buy the safety equipment. Chainsaw boots, pants, helmet, gloves and face shield at the least. Clear the work area and 3 escape paths for each tree. Buy and use wedges. If you don't already have a GOOD saw (Jonsered, Husky, Stilh) get the lightest professional one with the shortest bar. Expect to pay 3x what a box store saw will cost. If you are doing firewood, a 14-16" bar is all you need. You can drop a 30" tree with a 14" bar.

If you want to buy some neat toys, er tools, and maybe make a couple bucks, you may want to also get a band saw mill and turn the boards into lumber. You can make a very cheap solar dryer that will work in the winter (plans online). Or you can just fell, limb, buck, split and deliver firewood. Plan on clearing about 2.50 to 3.00 an hour! If you can sell arm load bundles of wood to campers or in town romantic fireplace burners, that's where the small operator makes $$. The big operations have firewood processors that can turn your acreage into stove sticks in no time.

jb

You are correct...but so serious...

The 10 most dangerous jobs
Occupation Fatalities per 100,000
1. Timber cutters 117.8
2. Fishers 71.1
3. Pilots and navigators 69.8
4. Structural metal workers 58.2
5. Drivers-sales workers 37.9
6. Roofers 37
7. Electrical power installers 32.5
8. Farm occupations 28
9. Construction laborers 27.7
10.Truck drivers 25

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics; survey of occupations with minimum 30 fatalities and 45,000 workers in 2002

But hey...we are NUMBER 8...

 

[SnowRidge]

You are correct...but so serious...

The 10 most dangerous jobs
Occupation Fatalities per 100,000
1. Timber cutters 117.8
2. Fishers 71.1
3. Pilots and navigators 69.8
4. Structural metal workers 58.2
5. Drivers-sales workers 37.9
6. Roofers 37
7. Electrical power installers 32.5
8. Farm occupations 28
9. Construction laborers 27.7
10.Truck drivers 25

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics; survey of occupations with minimum 30 fatalities and 45,000 workers in 2002

But hey...we are NUMBER 8...

Amazing. I never thought piloting or navigating a boat was all that dangerous.

 

[Nwood]

You are correct...but so serious...

The 10 most dangerous jobs
Occupation Fatalities per 100,000
1. Timber cutters 117.8
2. Fishers 71.1
3. Pilots and navigators 69.8
4. Structural metal workers 58.2
5. Drivers-sales workers 37.9
6. Roofers 37
7. Electrical power installers 32.5
8. Farm occupations 28
9. Construction laborers 27.7
10.Truck drivers 25

Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics; survey of occupations with minimum 30 fatalities and 45,000 workers in 2002

But hey...we are NUMBER 8...

Deep sea fishing is my other avocation, and used to fly light planes for a short while. Looking to round out the top three.

Realistically I don't think I'm going to take on 300 acres by myself, but am looking to do some of it where the access is best.
I do have a plan prepared by a licensed forester.

OK we have a thumbs up for Farmi winch and future forestry logging arch.
Anything else?
What about forwarding trailers?
Good 4wd tractor for woods work?

Have a 40horse ford 2wd with loader that is ready for retirement and an RTV.

 

[Youare]

I also live in New Hampshire and will have cut around 18 full cords of firewood this year. I have a Kubota L3000DT with a Farmi winch. We have been heating the house with only wood for over 30 years and I have a small portable saw mill.

I have access to a 400 acre piece of woods near my house to cut whatever I want off of and I have done what I consider light logging. Having said that, cutting two days a week it may be a challenge to get enough wood out to make a log truck load unless you have a skidder.

I would stick to cutting firewood doing some timber stand improvement and maybe looking into a portable mill to convert the good logs to lumber. You can store lumber much better and longer than you can keep logs in good condition and they fetch a better price.

There are two pieces of equipment that will make the job easier if you go with a tractor and winch setup. A logging arch, which you can make if your so inclinded and a log trailer with a hydraulic loader.

There are several smaller log trailers that can be pulled by an ATV or small tractor which amke getting wood out quicker and easier. All that stuff is a pretty big investment if you don't have any of these things now.

Not knowing your age and experience let me just say it is not as easy as it may look and a lot of learning is necessary so you do not hurt yourself and your equipment. If you like hard wood and the woods it's a great experience.

Randy

 

[Oleozz]

I just had a timber sale on 42 acres, the trees were marked by a professional forester and our average volume per acre was about 2,000 bd. ft. Red oak prices are way down but the white and chestnut oak prices are good plus we had some nice walnut and cherry. There is no way I would consider doing the job myself, I don't have the equipment or the know-how.
Getting a good forester is the way to go, he is in charge of everything from marking the trees, getting the bids out, and making sure the trees are removed in the correct manner. Most people would be amazed at the difference between the high and low bid that we received.

 

[Botabill]

Hey John Bud, how would a person drop a 30" tree with a 14" bar. I mean the only image I can conjured up is chewing around it like a beaver but still you'd have a 2 inch pieces left that the tree would teeter on . 14X2=28. Yikes!!