DK55 and KL1595 Loader

ocaj11 · Apr 4, 2005

pf,

That's what I would call a high tech, red neck. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Are you using a laptop with wireless?? I'm out on 60 acres with only Direcway as my access. The Direcway is slower than Cable or DSL, but it beats dial-up. I can work out in the shop on my laptop, but haven't tried using it on the tractor yet...

John,

I'm hopeful that Kioti will help. In my case, all I need are two new dump/curl cylinders with longer shafts. My dealer is currently working up a deal for me. If he can remedy the problem fairly inexpensive, I'll take it and be on my way. If it's going to run 800 dollars for a couple of cylinders, I'll hang on and beg Kioti for assistance. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Keith J

psuedofarmer · Apr 4, 2005

Are you using a laptop with wireless?? I'm out on 60 acres with only Direcway as my access. The Direcway is slower than Cable or DSL, but it beats dial-up. I can work out in the shop on my laptop, but haven't tried using it on the tractor yet...


i'm using directway with modifications (amplifiers, etc.). i intend to publish my setup as soon as i work out the kinks. the base system uses a touch-pad LCD screen mounted in the cab with a wireless, compact keyboard tucked under the seat. the system was inexpensive to build. stay tuned for the complete how-to guide, along with a pics from the farm restoration.

keep the forum updated on the FEL issue - like John said, the company listens and makes good (true from my own dealings with them and my dealer).

pf

LakeLanierBuddy · Apr 4, 2005

Reddog--- I wonder too about the use of the 1730 or 1731 on the DK55's. I noticed that with the new design of the DK65S that Kioti is listing the 1730 loader, but if you notice the spec's the 1731 has much better roll back performance. I would not care if they hired John Deere to engineer one but it should be right and work correctly. My list is growing of unhappy 1595 loader owners that have emailed me. They are going to have to come up with some new loaders for the Dk55 and 65 since most dealers have stopped selling the 1595 to customers they want to keep. I agree with you on the curved arm loaders!

ocaj11 · Apr 4, 2005

In case you guys are interested, especially KiotiJohn because he has listed the contact info, I did get a reply from Kioti.

Dear Mr. Johnson,

Thank you for your inquiry. You have a simple solution for a very complex problem and I wish it was that simple. But a mechanical self leveling loader is very complex, in design one must consider many factors and how they effect each other. I will not bore you with a bunch of reasons why but rather tell you Kioti is working on ways to improve the design. MSL loaders have been around for several years, but are still new to most people. The advantages you gain with self leveling you also tend to lose in other functions. We know that customers what more spec's than we have now and that is why we are looking to improve and to make something that can apply to past production. I would like to say that our loader does as much or more than our spec's say it will do and that we are not giving false spec's or providing a loader that does not meet or exceeds our spec's. I know this email will not solve your roll back issues today but please understand that we are working to make improvements to our products.

The simple solution he referred to was in response to my suggestion to put new cylinders on the loader with longer shafts. My dealer swears that this fixed one of his customers loaders....I don't really know.

Thanks for all the replies. I originally started this thread so potential DK55 owners would be sure to stay away from the KL1595. I wish someone had told me before I bought.

gmol · Apr 4, 2005

From what I gathered when I was having a fit with my 1595 was not cylinder throw but the holes on the bucket/ quicka ttach were too close together. I could not lift a thing when I had forks on and tried to move log lenght fire wood. The woods loader out performs the 1595 in all respects. I use the tractor in conjunction with a excavator and we could not get enough roll back angle with the 1595 to be able to load the bucket wtih the excavator,now I can thanks to my Woods loader and my dealer really doing a good job for me.

justforme · Apr 4, 2005

i have the same lack of roll back and no power to roll back with my 1590 on my 45c

depratt_equip · Apr 4, 2005

I have heard that KMW is working on a new linkage and cylinder combination to increase the roll back power and angle. Although still in the works they and Kioti are working to help resolve this issue. I know that customer satisfaction is both KMW and Kioti's main goal. Rest assured they are working on this issue that some are faced with. Wish I knew more details but that is really all I know of right now.

tallur4me · Apr 4, 2005

I bought a new DK45C witht he 1590 loader and have a roll back problem. With a bale spike it is nearly impossible to spear the bale in a manner that will allow me to stack a 5 x 5 round bale on top of the same dimension bales. The bucket drops part of its load if you lift the bucket more than 18" off the ground when moving dirt. The power of the FEW to lift is no problem; just the roll back thing. I was using a case loader on a David Brown and traded that in on the DK 45C and some days wish I had my case loader back.

ocaj11 · Apr 4, 2005

I applaud Kioti and KMW if they are truly working on a fix to this issue. I don't think it will take much to make the loader right. The up/down lift is fine. I believe the holes being too close together is a big contributor to the problem as well.

Sounds like the 1590 and 1595 have the same issues. I didn't go into all the problems, but dirt falling out of the bucket when lifting over 18" was what I was referring to in an earlier post. When you are running on uneven terrain, you don't want to leave the bucket low to the ground because it nose dives.

My dealer also told me about the problem stacking hay. Many people around here utilize their front end loader to stack hay three high. Another issue they were facing is the ability to keep the bale on the spear when going over a slight hill. The bale would slip off the front...

Jon,

Thanks for the info. You sound like a really great dealer and I appreciate your time to post what you know. Hopefully, it won't be much longer before a fix can be implemented.

Keith Johnson

LakeLanierBuddy · Apr 4, 2005

I hope they have not been working by the "hour" on this fix, since they have been "working on a fix" for over a year now. Loader would cost 239,000.00. Sounds like a goverment job!!!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

KiotiJohn · Apr 5, 2005

The reply I received from Daedong in S. Korea states that the problem is in the bucket pin hole and the bucket pivot hole. The distance is 5" and should be 7".
According to my source, the new KL 1595 loader has already been modified by KMW to solve this problem.
It is not certain, but it appears KMW is attempting to create a fix for the older loaders with increased bucket cylinder size and leverage. Making that work on a self-leveling loader as a retrofit may be the time problem.
I'll let you know anything more that I can discover.
John

LakeLanierBuddy · Apr 5, 2005

Thanks, John

DK35vince · Apr 5, 2005

( The reply I received from Daedong in S. Korea states that the problem is in the bucket pin hole and the bucket pivot hole. The distance is 5" and should be 7". )

Exactly
I've been saying that for some time now. I changed my pin distance to 8" myself a year ago on my 1450 loader. It made a differance in my roll back power..

psuedofarmer · Apr 7, 2005

Sounds like the 1590 and 1595 have the same issues. I didn't go into all the problems, but dirt falling out of the bucket when lifting over 18" was what I was referring to in an earlier post. When you are running on uneven terrain, you don't want to leave the bucket low to the ground because it nose dives.


i understand this issue clearly now - drove the neighbors NH yesterday and did some FEL work. the rollback made it easier to keep more dirt in the bucket..

please keep the forum updated with any news from Kioti corporate or your dealer.

i would like to have a fix for this issue.

pf

kodiac · Apr 13, 2005

Add myself (DK45 KL1590 selfleveling) and a friend (DK55c KL1595) as being VERY unhappy with the rollback angle/load carring capacity and the VERY poor power (rollback) on these loaders! Like all of you I hope a fair solution from Kioti is provided. I am wondering since several have mentioned the cylinders being part of the problem, will new/modified brackets be enough to solve this problem? Should the cylinders be replaced as well?

Dave

ocaj11 · Apr 13, 2005

Kodiac,

LakeLanierBuddy has been petitioning Kioti for a solution for over a year. I sent him a personal email with my information and told him that I was interested in being part of a potential lawsuit if Kioti doesn't provide a solution for us soon. You should send him a PM as well for him to add to his growing list. His PM address is listed in a previous response.

I received one response to an email to Kioti Customer Service, but could not get clarification to a few points with my second email. So far, I'm not convinced that they are going to give us a solution without a fight.

Keith

gmol · Apr 13, 2005

Well guys if anyone actaully reads my posts it will be noticed that Kioti did exchange my 1595 loader for a Woods. Once again if you read this perhaps some one will notice a precident has been set ! Once again the problem is with the hole spacing at the bucket and not necesarliy cylinder strenght. Best of luck all, G

ocaj11 · Apr 13, 2005

gmol,

Thanks for the reply. I did read your post and talked to my dealer about it and sent Kioti an email. So far, nothing has progressed. Who did you speak with at Kioti?? I don't know where to go from here. Buddy hasn't had any luck getting his loader replaced either. If I knew who to contact, I certainly would do that.

I have studied the hole placement and definitely think that is one of the problems with the loaders. I'm not a mechanical design guy, but I don't see how changing the hole spacing will improve rollback angle without negatively impacting dump angle with such a short cylinder shaft. I can certainly see how it would increase the rollback power, but I can't see it solving the angle problems. My dealer actually removed the top bracket and pinned the loader shaft directly to the bucket. That completely solved the roll back angle problem. Happy customer until he noticed that the cylinder shaft was now too short to provide adequate dump angle /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.

It could be that different hole spacing is the entire answer. If that is the case, it should be simple for Kioti to issue the fix.

depratt_equip · Apr 13, 2005

As my post above stated

( KMW is working on a new linkage and cylinder combination to increase the roll back power and angle. )

This loaders are complex and aren't quite as easy as just different holes and mounting locations. In short these loaders do exactly what the specs say they will do, but many do not feel this is adequate. The specs are not misleading or say they will do something they won't. KMW & Kioti know that many customers don't feel these loaders are adequate, even though they meet the specs, so they are working on a fix in the way of a cylinder / linkage combo for these customers.

LakeLanierBuddy · Apr 14, 2005

Jon, I really don't think they do what the spec's say. When someone buys a 55hp tractor with loader they expect to be able to use the loader to actually load and move dirt, gravel, logs, sand etc.....; rather than have only the use of a third of their respective buckets. These loaders do not perform as expected when but up against other tractor manufactures loader performance. I understand self-leveling to be level. These loaders do not self level, they do not roll the bucket back to a level state. The idea is once the operator levels his load of sand, that the bucket is suppose to hold this angle without correction, until the operator raises this load up to whatever level needed to dump such as in a dump truck. The only loader I have found that Kioti sells that comes close to this is on the DK65's and it is the 1731. Kioti should be sending letters to all owners of these defective 1590,1595 loaders stating that they are going to fix them with whatever it takes. They have been and are continuing to avoid direct liability for these loaders, but I did not buy mine from KMW. I have sent two letters directly to the president of Kioti, neither have been responded too. I have been complaining for well over a year for warranty help on my half working loader without anything but Kioti saying we are working on a "fix". Helicopters are complex, loaders are simple lifting hydraulics that full time engineers and whole companies (KMW) should be able to fix. Sorry for the disagreement, but time and my growing list of unhappy people tell the story. It is past time for Kioti to fix these loaders or stop selling them. coptermd47@bellsouth.net