Buying Advice Do I go NEW offbrand or used name brand?

[farmfun]

You might like to focus on how long you realistically plan to own it.

Deere is well known for sure, but they have been hard on some of their former dealers, so that hot shop available today may not be around in 5 or 10 years. The corporate support plan appears to be leaning toward that of the automobile industry with part costs and availability as things age increasing in price with extensive lead-times.

So if you see yourself trading within ten years, it may not be an issue. As to the other colors mentioned in the thread I can't attest, but I have name brand Deere equipment and the "great support" I once had has deteriorated somewhat. Don't get stuck on the paint color, just food for thought.

 

[Illinoisdmax]

I've always been one to keep things around. Thankgs for the input

 

[eagle107]

Just an FYI. I spoke to two dealers the other day; a John Deere and a New Holland dealer; the New Holland dealer just started selling Mahindra tractors. They both told me the same thing that the top three CUT manufacturers in sales will be Kubota as number one, John Deere as number two and Mahindra as number three. As far as NH/Case CUTs, they have drop down to single digit sales. Even the NH dealer who use to have NH CUT sales in the double digits in his area is now down to single digit sales. Since getting in Mahindra, he is selling two Mahindra CUTs for every 1 NH CUT and he is thinking that margin will increase in time. So it looks like Mahindra is now a major player and is no longer considered an "off brand" tractor from a sales perspective.

 

[Illinoisdmax]

Just an FYI. I spoke to two dealers the other day; a John Deere and a New Holland dealer; the New Holland dealer just started selling Mahindra tractors. They both told me the same thing that the top three CUT manufacturers in sales will be Kubota as number one, John Deere as number two and Mahindra as number three. As far as NH/Case CUTs, they have drop down to single digit sales. Even the NH dealer who use to have NH CUT sales in the double digits in his area is now down to single digit sales. Since getting in Mahindra, he is selling two Mahindra CUTs for every 1 NH CUT and he is thinking that margin will increase in time. So it looks like Mahindra is now a major player and is no longer considered an "off brand" tractor from a sales perspective.

That's good to know, not sure what HP rating a CUT is in but I figured the 75+pto HP models I've been lookin at weren't considered CUT's

 

[dlauffenburger]

Interesting post. I am curious what is used to determine if a tractor is off-brand, country of manufacture/assembly, country of part assembly, engineers home base, ???. I see quite a few posts referring to off-brand, but as far as i can tell all brands are now either being designed, built, or parts manufactured over seas and then assembled here in the US (even JD, IH). So what determines off-brand.

We have owned JD, IH, Case, Allis Chalmers, and NH equipment on our farm and all have their strenghts and weaknesses, but some of the newer imports (Kubota, Kioti, LS, Mahindra) are getting to be very solid tractors for reasonable prices with great warranties.

 

[wcampbell47]

Interesting post. I am curious what is used to determine if a tractor is off-brand, country of manufacture/assembly, country of part assembly, engineers home base, ???. I see quite a few posts referring to off-brand, but as far as i can tell all brands are now either being designed, built, or parts manufactured over seas and then assembled here in the US (even JD, IH). So what determines off-brand.

Off brand may indicate just a lesser known make like Satoh, Mitsubishi, Farmtrac, Branson, Montana, LS. However when you peel the layers back you find that the major brands (JD, IH, etc) have had their tractors built by some of these lesser known companies, at least to US consumers. They may be big in other parts of the world. A search of JD on TractorData revealed that up to about the 35-40 hp range tractors are mostly made by Yanmar or at least have Yanmar engines. 40 hp and up are made in Argentina, India, Germany, Korea just to list a few. I guess we have seen tractors from all over the world imported to the US. Add Russia, China, Mexico to the list.

JI Case tractors to the best of my knowledge was the last company to give up it's tractor facility in the USA.

Would you use service and parts availability to classify major or off brand machines?

 

[Kernopelli]

I'm not going to get into the aspects of brands and I don't know beans about haying or crop production. One thing I have seen though is a ton of coworkers who do, a lot also have cattle. They ALL have started with Deere 4020's and they've all kept them to this day. Despite what they upgrade to, they ALL eventually graduated to cab tractors. Now a lot of these guys are feeding during winter months too but they are also equally thrilled to no longer be choking in dust and chaff, swatting sweat bees, staying dry and sweating to dehydration.

I realized the benefit when we got a new wheel loader at work and it no longer mattered if it was 100* or -10* windchill, snowing, raining or so dusty you had to wait for it to clear everytime you got a bucket before you could safely back up....I was comfortable. It's worth a lot and I finally understood what all the hoopla was about. If this is going to be a machine you're going to be spending a lot of time in, keeping and making a living with, spend the extra money and get a cab model.

 

[eagle107]

Regarding John Deere manufacturing, I spoke to the JD dealer for some time about this and he told me the following:

1. The 2000, 3000 (not sure about the 4000s) economy series tractors are Yanmar made with Yanmar engines.

2. The 2x20 and 3x20 have Yanmar engines, but the rest is designed/engineered by JD globally. The frames, axles and cabs (electric component not included) come out of John Deere factories or factories owned by JD in the US and the rest of the components come from JD factories abroad.

3. The 4x20 series tractors are designed/engineered by JD globally and made by JD factories or factories owned by JD in the US, except for the JD powertech engines (6 and 4 cyclinder engines) made by the JD factory in Torreon, Mexico. Other JD engines are made by the JD factory in Fleury-les-Aubrais, France and Waterloo, Iowa.

4. The 5000 series tractors are designed/engineered (the 5D & 5E are 10+ year old US JD design) by JD globally and made by the JD factory in Pune, India.

5. The 6000 series is designed/engineered by JD globally and made by the Mannheim, German factory. I was told they make those tractors there because JD has some kind of lock for that tractor in European market. So they ship them over to the US.

6. The 7, 8 and 9 series tractors are designed/engineered by JD globally and made by the JD factory in Waterloo, Iowa.

7. The big combine harvesters designed/engineered by JD globally and made by the JD factory in East Moline, Illinois.

 

[Martian]

Regarding John Deere manufacturing, I spoke to the JD dealer for some time about this and he told me the following:

1. The 2000, 3000 (not sure about the 4000s) economy series tractors are Yanmar made with Yanmar engines.

2. The 2x20 and 3x20 have Yanmar engines, but the rest is designed/engineered by JD globally. The frames, axles and cabs (electric component not included) come out of John Deere factories or factories owned by JD in the US and the rest of the components come from JD factories abroad.

3. The 4x20 series tractors are designed/engineered by JD globally and made by JD factories or factories owned by JD in the US, except for the JD powertech engines (6 and 4 cyclinder engines) made by the JD factory in Torreon, Mexico. Other JD engines are made by the JD factory in Fleury-les-Aubrais, France and Waterloo, Iowa.

4. The 5000 series tractors are designed/engineered (the 5D & 5E are 10+ year old US JD design) by JD globally and made by the JD factory in Pune, India.

5. The 6000 series is designed/engineered by JD globally and made by the Mannheim, German factory. I was told they make those tractors there because JD has some kind of lock for that tractor in European market. So they ship them over to the US.

6. The 7, 8 and 9 series tractors are designed/engineered by JD globally and made by the JD factory in Waterloo, Iowa.

7. The big combine harvesters designed/engineered by JD globally and made by the JD factory in East Moline, Illinois.

In other words, everything besides the new 2x20 series is designed/built by JD.

 

[eagle107]

That's good to know, not sure what HP rating a CUT is in but I figured the 75+pto HP models I've been lookin at weren't considered CUT's

The Sub-compact Utility Tractors (SCUTs) are the 1000 series tractors (22 to 25 engine HP).

The Compact Utility Tractors (CUTs) are the 2000 (24 to 31 engine HP), 3000 (23 to 43 HP) and 4000 (40 to 66 engine HP) series tractors.

The Ag Utility tractors are the 5000 and 6000 series tractors, which is what you would be looking at for a 75HP engine or PTO. 45 to 180 engine HP.

The Row Crop tractors are the 6R, 7030, 7R, 8R/T series tractors. 170 to 350 engine HP.

The massive four wheel drive tractors (the green hulks) are the 9R series tractors. 360 to 560 engine HP.