IH3444
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Yea, regular dino will flow at -51F, but I think they call it creep then. Like the glass flow on vertical windows made back in the 15th century. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Do synthetics actually suck?
- Thread starter Jay4200
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Sully2
Veteran Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Didn't ya just know someone from a cold, dark place would pipe up about -51 degrees?!? I've seen it that cold (and colder...) up here and I try my best to never, ever have to crank up any of my diesels -- Duramax, Powerstroke and JD at those temps! But when it's -20 or -30, I do go out and crank up one or the other of those diesels 'cause I gotta get to work or clear out my 350' of driveway (although, I'd probably leave it until it warmed up and just turn the hubs in..). Nonetheless, I just cringe when I think back to my old Delo 400 days! It sounded like some little gremlin in there with a 5 pound ball peen hammer tryin' to get out the side of the block!! No more of that business... I'll gladly shell out a few more bucks for the Rotella synthetic if it means another several years of reliable service from my rigs. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif AKfish )</font>
IMHO...your a very good candidate for syn oils...and if I live in a place where it had constant temps of that range...Im positive I would also. There are conditions where..IMHO.a syn oil is a "requirement"..and there are conditions where its just an added "feature"...and then..of course..there are conditions that just give he user a "warm and fuzzy feeling".
I'll be using it in my Kubota..for reasons Ive posted before..but I'll still use Delo 15W-40 in my Cummins...because from mid Nov to Mid march...it doesnt even get started....so "lube" is semi unimportant. But in the case of my Kubota...Im not going to do any extended changes or anything..and will be doing the 100 hours ( or even less depending on actual usage of course) maintainence.
IMHO...your a very good candidate for syn oils...and if I live in a place where it had constant temps of that range...Im positive I would also. There are conditions where..IMHO.a syn oil is a "requirement"..and there are conditions where its just an added "feature"...and then..of course..there are conditions that just give he user a "warm and fuzzy feeling".
I'll be using it in my Kubota..for reasons Ive posted before..but I'll still use Delo 15W-40 in my Cummins...because from mid Nov to Mid march...it doesnt even get started....so "lube" is semi unimportant. But in the case of my Kubota...Im not going to do any extended changes or anything..and will be doing the 100 hours ( or even less depending on actual usage of course) maintainence.
slowrev
Elite Member
So oil is oil ? Whether synthetic or not it all comes from crude oil ?
I wonder how much Crude is required to make 1 qt of dino oil vs one qt. of syn oil ?
Ben
I wonder how much Crude is required to make 1 qt of dino oil vs one qt. of syn oil ?
Ben
robison
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( why doesent BMW or Porsche recommend dino? do they have stake in Mobil or who ever. )</font>
BMW and Porsche used to recommend the best grades of dino oil. However, the pressure of environmental responsibility is driving all carmakers toward longer oil drain intervals, and dino oils were not able to protect the engines at extended drain intervals.
Furthermore, dino oils were not able to achieve the fuel economy ratings . . . the lighter synthetics flow easier, thereby improving fuel economy. But they are strong enough to protect the motor. Dino oil isn't strong enough if refined that thin.
BMW and Porsche used to recommend the best grades of dino oil. However, the pressure of environmental responsibility is driving all carmakers toward longer oil drain intervals, and dino oils were not able to protect the engines at extended drain intervals.
Furthermore, dino oils were not able to achieve the fuel economy ratings . . . the lighter synthetics flow easier, thereby improving fuel economy. But they are strong enough to protect the motor. Dino oil isn't strong enough if refined that thin.
slowrev
Elite Member
Is synthetic really more energy efficient in the overall scheme of things. If it takes more oil or energy to produce it..............
Ben
Ben
does it take more dino or energy to produce it? I dont know, but the finished results are one giant leap in lubricating advancements. I think what synthetics are capable of make it worth it, the price seems to reflect that.
tjkadar
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Synthetic oils are based on good ole dino oil seed stocks. Organic chemistry (or organic synthesis) is used to create nice, long, chains of polymers that are even in length and that exhibit specific properties. Synthetic oils all start life as dino oil.
Exercising precise control of the molecular structure allows for the careful tailoring of the oils’ properties. By employing different ‘recipes’, different polymers with different properties are synthesized. These polymers are mixed together, along with other additives, to create blends of synthetic oils with different viscosities, etc.
So, the answer is yes; synthetic oil started life the same way a dino oil does. However, synthetic oil doesn't stop at kindergarten. It goes through middle school, high school, prep school, and college too. Synthetic oil has properties and characteristics dino oil cannot achieve. Whether or not you will see a significant difference from those properties or not depends on your use of a vehicle and your maintenance schedule.
It is a decision consumers must make for themselves. Personally, I use synthetic in my cars and motorcycles. I use dino oil in our diesels and strictly adhere to the oil changing guidelines set by my equipments’ manufacturer. For me, the costs are too high to use ‘synthetic’ oil in my diesel motors (when an oil change is counted in gallons and not quarts it adds up quick). The biggest concern for me in a diesel motor isn’t that the oil has lost its ability to lubricate my motor, but that the oil has been contaminated by the byproducts of diesel combustion.
Synthetics are able to hold those contaminants in suspension longer than dino oil. However, the added length of time between oil changes is not enough to justify the added costs of the synthetic. Because I am not wearing out the lubricating properties of my oil before time for an oil change, synthetics aren’t the most cost effective answer to my diesel powered equipment. With a bigger fleet of vehicles, I might change my mind. I have not seen any premature failures in hundred of thousands of miles or thousands of hours on our equipment.
Synthetic oil does exhibit superior chemical properties to dino oil. However, the cost to benefit ratio is not always as cut and dried.
Exercising precise control of the molecular structure allows for the careful tailoring of the oils’ properties. By employing different ‘recipes’, different polymers with different properties are synthesized. These polymers are mixed together, along with other additives, to create blends of synthetic oils with different viscosities, etc.
So, the answer is yes; synthetic oil started life the same way a dino oil does. However, synthetic oil doesn't stop at kindergarten. It goes through middle school, high school, prep school, and college too. Synthetic oil has properties and characteristics dino oil cannot achieve. Whether or not you will see a significant difference from those properties or not depends on your use of a vehicle and your maintenance schedule.
It is a decision consumers must make for themselves. Personally, I use synthetic in my cars and motorcycles. I use dino oil in our diesels and strictly adhere to the oil changing guidelines set by my equipments’ manufacturer. For me, the costs are too high to use ‘synthetic’ oil in my diesel motors (when an oil change is counted in gallons and not quarts it adds up quick). The biggest concern for me in a diesel motor isn’t that the oil has lost its ability to lubricate my motor, but that the oil has been contaminated by the byproducts of diesel combustion.
Synthetics are able to hold those contaminants in suspension longer than dino oil. However, the added length of time between oil changes is not enough to justify the added costs of the synthetic. Because I am not wearing out the lubricating properties of my oil before time for an oil change, synthetics aren’t the most cost effective answer to my diesel powered equipment. With a bigger fleet of vehicles, I might change my mind. I have not seen any premature failures in hundred of thousands of miles or thousands of hours on our equipment.
Synthetic oil does exhibit superior chemical properties to dino oil. However, the cost to benefit ratio is not always as cut and dried.
cowboydoc
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<font color="green">but that the oil has been contaminated by the byproducts of diesel combustion.
Synthetics are able to hold those contaminants in suspension longer than dino oil. However, the added length of time between oil changes is not enough to justify the added costs of the synthetic. Because I am not wearing out the lubricating properties of my oil before time for an oil change, synthetics aren’t the most cost effective answer to my diesel powered equipment. With a bigger fleet of vehicles, I might change my mind. I have not seen any premature failures in hundred of thousands of miles or thousands of hours on our equipment.
Synthetic oil does exhibit superior chemical properties to dino oil. However, the cost to benefit ratio is not always as cut and dried.
</font>
I have tryed to say this for years but it always got overshadowed by a certain persons arguing. We went synthetic in all of our diesels years back. The problem was exactly what you just said. The properities of the oil were still ok from the test results but the oil was contaminated. If you're using diesels hard you are going to get contaminants. Couple that with condensation and other problems unique to tractors and you just can't extend the drains like you can on a vehicle.
Synthetics are able to hold those contaminants in suspension longer than dino oil. However, the added length of time between oil changes is not enough to justify the added costs of the synthetic. Because I am not wearing out the lubricating properties of my oil before time for an oil change, synthetics aren’t the most cost effective answer to my diesel powered equipment. With a bigger fleet of vehicles, I might change my mind. I have not seen any premature failures in hundred of thousands of miles or thousands of hours on our equipment.
Synthetic oil does exhibit superior chemical properties to dino oil. However, the cost to benefit ratio is not always as cut and dried.
</font>
I have tryed to say this for years but it always got overshadowed by a certain persons arguing. We went synthetic in all of our diesels years back. The problem was exactly what you just said. The properities of the oil were still ok from the test results but the oil was contaminated. If you're using diesels hard you are going to get contaminants. Couple that with condensation and other problems unique to tractors and you just can't extend the drains like you can on a vehicle.
I think the one other big thing with synthetics and diesel is its ability to keep the PH in check where it does not get acidic to the point of internal damage. also a by pass filter may be a good option for the extended oil changes.
cowboydoc
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You are right Garrabo about the acidity. We just couldn't keep the oil clean enough and within parameters any longer than the Rotella lasted. We did put a bypass system on a couple tractors and it did help, but after a year of sitting and not being used much you started to get contaminants in the oil regardless. Changing once or twice a year in regular oil it just never paid. We would have needed to have the oil in the tractors for 4 times the rate of Rotella to even break even. On the tractors that only get changed once a year it was a complete waste. And the other tractors there was no way we could 4x as long in between changes.
