Do you cary a weapon on your tractor?

RanchMan · Jul 9, 2002

Guns and viagra....a dangerous combination.

I just love it when comments like this are thrown out there to imply that all folks who own/use guys have some type of mental issue, feel inadequate, and how having a gun makes them "feel like a REAL man."

Interesting you imply that you are the "open minded one" on this topic. Also kindof noteworthy that you choose to stereotype others, those who you believe are a minority viewpoint on this subject (with regards to the American public as a whole.) /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

You've come across (in my opinion) as advocating a very different philosophical viewpoint on the world in different "non gun" threads. Just seems like a lack of consistency to me.

I'm sure you'll disagree and say you aren't "changing your stripes to fit your opinion." That's OK, after all, as you say, "You have your opinion; I have mine."

Chuck52 · Jul 9, 2002

I wasn't aware that the Swiss carried concealed weapons. I also thought their mandated home guard, or whatever it is called, involvement had an age limit. Don't know. Do the old folks our age wander around with guns? Is there any country in Europe which has a higher crime rate than the U.S.? So many questions.

Chuck

Ozarker · Jul 9, 2002

You mistake European gun registration schemes for limited access to guns. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Yes, they have to get government permission to buy guns but that permission is easy to get and there are plenty of guns in private hands in Europe. Heck, France just made it difficult for private citizens to own machine guns 5 or 6 years ago and only then because is was a condition of joining the EU.

I lived in Germany for nearly 10 years and there was a Schutzen Hause (bar/restrauant/shooting range) in just about every little berg you went into. I belonged to two of them and use to go shoot with my German friends frequently. Their restriction was caliber and the largest available to them was 9mm. They liked to shoot my .45 and my buddy's Mod 29 S7W 44mag.

Europeans can own guns and they can get carry permits in most countries. They just don't have all the press we do.

MikePA · Jul 9, 2002

most (all?) of the countries of Europe, which do not allow easy private gun ownership, have much lower crime statistics than the U.S. 

I'd like to do more research on this topic. What is your source for this statment? Thanks.

rocky2 · Jul 9, 2002

I carry every day, everywhere except where the Feds say I can't (ie; Federal Bldg/Courthouse). I guess in Western PA, on my small amount of land I don't have the need to carry out on the tractor. Now if I had bunches of land, was out in the boondocks, far from the main property, it could be a totally different story. And besides, if you want to carry to the john while you poop...it's YOUR God given American 2nd amendment right to carry whenever, wherever you want to.

rocky2 · Jul 9, 2002

This account attributes a rise in violent crime in Australia to a recent gun control law that was designed to reduce crime, then uses "statistics" as a lesson to those in the United States who are pushing for stricter gun control...it doesn't work.
About Australia
* Homicides are up 3.2%
* Assaults are up 8.6%
* Armed robberies are up 44%
Response:
These figures compare 1996 with 1997 figures and were correct at that time.
(Data source: Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) Recorded Crime 1997, Table 1.1, p 8).
Figures over the previous 25 years show a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms (changed drastically in the past 12 months).
Response:
Actual figures from the ABS do show an increase in armed robbery from 1995 (5258) to 1996 (6256) to 1997 (9054) to 1998 (10850), but the proportion of firearms used to commit armed robbery has continued to decline over this period:
1995 - 27.8%
1996 - 25.3%
1997 - 24.1%
1998 - 17.6%
1999 - 15.2%
2000 - 14.0%
There has been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly
Response:
According to the 1998 ABS Crime and Safety Survey "households with persons aged 55 years and over had a lower risk of break-in victimisation compared with other households" (page 27).
According to the ABS Recorded Crime:
1996 - 1474 victims of assault aged 65 and over
1997 - 1662 victims of assault aged 65 and over (12.8% increase from '96 to '97)
1998 - 1663 victims of assault aged 65 and over (0.06% increase from '97 to '98)
1999 - 1793 victims of assault aged 65 and over (7.8% increase from '98 to '99).

Further information on firearm-related homicide and firearm-related injuries in Australia can be downloaded from the AIC website:
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi198.html
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi187.html
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/tandi151.html
Jenny Mouzos
Research Analyst - Manager
National Homicide / Firearms / Deaths in Custody Monitoring Programs
Australian Institute of Criminology

rocky2 · Jul 9, 2002

According to the Department of Justice, firearms account for less than 10% of all violent crime.
Over 64% of all violent crime is committed with bare hands, and another 26% is committed with everyday items like hammers, knives, bottles and crowbars.
In the April 1996 Department of Justice report "Firearm Injury from Crime" the DoJ stated "Firearm-related crime and resulting injury is a relatively rare event".

But wait, ten percent does involve firearms? Given there is some 9 million violent crimes a year, that means firearms are used in about 900 thousand attacks each year! What would be wrong with gun control if it reduced that number? The answer is simple, but not presented by the news very often.
The FBI and Department of Justice both have documented that each year roughly 2.5 MILLION Americans are able to stop a violent attack because they had a gun to defend themselves.

Chuck52 · Jul 9, 2002

Ranchman,

Sorry about the viagra comment. It was an after-thought, or perhaps after-non-thought. I'm glad you loved it and weren't irritated by it.

Feel free to try to judge my philisophical viewpoint on the world based on these sometimes strange discussions. If you figure out how to classify my opinions, please let me know....if you can do so to a family audience! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

As to closed and open minds, isn't it clear that most of us have our opinons and we're unlikely to be easily swayed from them by discussions such as these. It's all very well to claim that we will listen to facts, but most of us will choose to interpret (there's one of those topics!) any facts presented on our own terms. The present thread started as a question about carrying a gun on a tractor for possible use as a defense against a non-human threat. It evolved, and we got into carrying concealed weapons, presumably for protection against human threats. I support hunting, and carrying a gun in the woods for protection against snakes, bears, lions, tigers and charging elephants seems like a good idea to me. Carrying a concealed weapon at all times, I guess as a protection against armed criminal action, does not strike me as reasonable for most folks. We can both look up statistics until the cows come home to support our beliefs, but I've never read any that I felt were so compelling that they changed my mind on the matter. I suppose that can mean I have a closed mind on the subject. Can you honestly say you are open to conversion on this one? My point here is that many of these gut-reaction subjects are really not good subjects for a test of open-mindedness in general.

And so, we are indeed back to the my opinion - your opinion point. In the last vote, the right to carry a concealed weapon was defeated in Missouri, so I guess I'm in the majority in this state on that one. On the other hand, our state legislature is now in the process of trying to pass such a law anyway. Democracy in action!

Chuck

RoyJackson · Jul 9, 2002

"The FBI and Department of Justice both have documented that each year roughly 2.5 MILLION Americans are able to stop a violent attack because they had a gun to defend themselves."

Actually, that number (2.5 million) was from a study by a Statistician named John Lott. I believe he lives in Chicago.
Prof. Lott's statistics are solid and have been confirmed by an independent agency. The Anti-Rights folks hate 'em, as the numbers are accurate.

rocky2, I seen you're from western PA. Watch out for the Governor's race this year. Rendell is an extreme anti-rights candidate. He was one of the idiots who started the lawsuits against gun manufacturers. IF he get's the governorship, it'll be a disaster (for the schools, too..see what his legacy in the Philly school system is?).

RoyJackson · Jul 9, 2002

"Carrying a concealed weapon at all times, I guess as a protection against armed criminal action, does not strike me as reasonable for most folks"

Chuck, the problem isn't that you feel it isn't reasonable...if you don't want to carry, don't.
The problem is many of those who agree with you think no one should.

I'll suggest some one carry...show them what shooting is like, but the choice to carry is theirs. I don't even try to persuade 'em.
But we have nitwits in DC like Feinstein, Schumer, et al (some of whom do have bodyguards, by the way...wonder who pays for that?) who feel Americans should be disarmed. To me, that's slavery. And I do wholeheartedly say, they'll have to pry those guns from my "cold dead hands"!

As an example, in Maryland, Governor Glendenning vetoed a bill that would have required gun safety training in schools. Now, accidental shooting are a fact of life...something that could be drastically reduced by gun safety course. So, why does someone who professes to be concerned about "safety" (as Glendenning says he is) veto a bill that would result in less deaths? The agenda has nothing to do with safety...as I mentioned in an earler post...it's about the power of government to rule your life...dictate might be a better word.

So, Chuck, don't carry if you don't want to...but don't even try to tell us it's "unreasonable" to carry...you're not qualified, friend.