Do you cary a weapon on your tractor?

rocky2 · Jul 9, 2002

I know of Rendell and his directions. Then there's Auditor General Bob Casey Jr, the bloodline of the "great liberal" we used to have.
The only hope is the Attorney Gen, Mike Fisher Republican candidate. Unfortunatly, PA has an old mindset (read Democrat stranglehold) in the Philly and Pittsburgh metro areas. Even looking back at the Presidential election, GW carried every county except around Philly and Allegheny County around Pittsburgh. Both of these counties provide a rich bed of voter fraud, cronieism(sp) and "miniority organized" support .
Another bad thing is the "gun control" issue has become a hidden agenda for the Democrats. A taboo topic since it was the single most thing that hurt Gore statewide.

rocky2 · Jul 9, 2002

By the way Roy, I lived a few years out your way ('95-late '97). I was consulting for the Navy at Mechanicburg and rented a house over at Lake Meade, near Dillsburg, home of the pickle drop.

Chuck52 · Jul 9, 2002

Roy,

So, Chuck, don't carry if you don't want to...but don't even try to tell us it's "unreasonable"
to carry...you're not qualified, friend. 

I believe I said it was unreasonable for most folks to carry a gun for self defense. That statement implies an opinion. That is, it is my opinion that it is unreasonable for most folks to carry a gun for self defense. I'll stick by that one, assuming I am qualified to have an opinion. I am qualified to vote, and whenever I get a chance I will vote against allowing carrying concealed guns. And, no, I do not see this as a blow against the second ammendment. It says bear arms, not hide them.

Chuck

Egon · Jul 9, 2002

Golly: Those who know me consider my tractor with me operating it a weapon in itself. They sure get the cars out of the way and always stand back at shoutin distance.

Egon

RanchMan · Jul 9, 2002

Chuck -

For once, I **mostly** agree with what you said. (will wonders never cease??? /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif)

Saying that, I will make a couple of *quick* comments with my perspective....

Carrying a concealed weapon at all times, I guess as a protection against armed criminal action, does not strike me as reasonable for most folks. We can both look up statistics until the cows come home to support our beliefs

Well, "reasonable" is a judgement call. Someone does make up the statistics - just depends on how much faith one puts in the belief of "NAW, that will never happen to me - it'll be the other guy..." Doesn't matter what the subject is - military combat, car wrecks, etc. So yea, I agree with you in that everyone has a different perspective on "reasonable."

As for your statement on looking up statistics, well, yes, there is always the old adage of "Statistics are the easiest way to lie." But, on the heels of that, I'd say "consider the source" - kindof "independent observation" thinking. Now, not every group going for a political end "fudges the numbers" to make their case, but some do. One has to base the "believability" based on the track record of the organization developing those #'s. I will comment though, I have never seen any statistics provided by any group where "crime" on the whole had done anything other than decrease for a state after CC was passed.

I suppose that can mean I have a closed mind on the subject. Can you honestly say you are open to conversion on this one?

Well, believe it or not, my short answer is "Yes." /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

But, I, like others have cited, will not be swayed by emotional arguments or "conceptual" perspective - it will take FACTS. Years ago I actually did a LOT of research in to this very subject, even wondered for a time about "who was right?" My research was not limited to "today's statistics" but went back and contained the critically important historical components as well. Call it a "Search for Truth" - unlike our adversarial court system where neither "side" is interested in "truth" but in "proving their case." (I won't go in to the "Your Truth" vs. "My Truth" argument as I find it a philosophical debacle - simply stated, I refuse to subscribe to the whole concept of 4+2 does equal 5 if it makes Johnny feel good about himself...Nope - it equals 6. Always has, always will. Some things are just that straight forward.)

After diving through all the "facts" available at the time, provided by groups on both sides of the issue, I found some things very disturbing. I will not go so far as to say every group/organization on one side or the other was "wholly honest", BUT I will say there was a shocking tendency for one side to practice deceitful "accounting practices", introduce "red herrings", and follow just plain incorrect logical causation models in order to make their case. This pattern was repeated time and time again. This all goes back to "consider the source" statement I said earlier.

One interesting sidebar was that although my views on this particular subject were solely based on "facts" I gathered, I found one of the "sides" fit very well with my ethical/moral convictions whereas the other "side" often was directly in opposition to my moral/ethical beliefs.

So, "Yes" - I do examine/read "new" information on the subject when it comes out, but I find virtually every bit of it simply a "new spin" on old & flawed arguments.

Hope this clarifies things a bit...

Chuck52 · Jul 9, 2002

Ranchman,

Looks like another of those agree to disagree things. Sure are lots of those, eh? Well, at least variety is good, even in opinions.

Chuck

Ozarker · Jul 9, 2002

I wouldn't gloat too much on that Prop B vote. It was a slim margin, at the last hour, carried by the illegal "dead' vote in
St Louis.

That aside, it never should have been voted on in the first place. Rights are not subject to the whim of the majority. If they were, Jim Crow laws could not have been ruled unconstitutional.

The Constitution of the State of Missouri is clear on firearms. The right of the people to keep and to bear arms for defense can not be questioned. That unconstitutional blurb added about concealed carry in 1879 during reconstruction has no meaning. Unfortunately we haven't had a judge with the b@lls to say so.

The legislature will bring a right to carry law as they have done in the past and I'm sure that the little left wing dictator in the governors mansion will veto it. But election comes and he won't have the Carnihan sympathy vote or the St Louis dead vote to carry him next time.

The best thing about the Florida debacle in the last election is that it will probably clean up the years of vote fraud in St Louis and Kansas City it it's wake.

Chuck52 · Jul 9, 2002

Did I gloat? Sorry about that. I thought I just said it. Mayhap gloat is in the eye of the reader.

I'm no fan of Holden. He won't get my vote next time around unless the republicans run another Ashcroft. I don't care where he stands on the gun issue....it isn't a make-or-break for me, regardless of what you may think you think I think on the issue, but I do like my governor to display the occasional glimmer of uncommon sense.

Chuck

njrqs · Jul 9, 2002

PS - Just my Aussie comments here - I am not stirring up an anti-gun debate.

I'll say that again........................

These were my comments relating to us over here. If you guys are allowed to carry guns, good for you.

We aren't, and I am more than happy with that.

End of story.

Some people seem to have taken offence to my comments. Better to have some opinion than none at all.

If I somehow inferred that you guys can't be trusted than I apologise.

Cheers

GarageSmoker · Jul 9, 2002

Met with the builder out at the property this afternoon and his opinion of all the digging we saw in some of the areas I had cut was we have a wild boar cruising the property. Now that it is wide open he poses no threat as we aren't likely to corner him by accident.

So that rules out weapons of mass destruction but aren't these critters hunted in a particular season? Should I open my property to hunting to rid me of this bad boy? (I don't hunt) Seems I'll have trouble planting things if he (or she) is always clawing up the ground looking for food.

GS