Does Anyone Braze Anymore ??

[Mark @ Everlast]

Please, don't use coat hangers for Oxy Fuel welding. Coat hangers are made out of mystery metals. You can't rely on them. In fact they do actually make gas welding rods. RG is the designation used for gas filler metal. They look just like TIG rod/wire. You typically have RG 60 or RG 45 wire. I'm teaching this discipline for the tech college this semester. It's not expensive for a few pounds of it, and in my opinion, it ought to be LAW that every welder start with this process before advancing to other aspects of welding. It teaches so much about puddle recognition, manipulation and technique and develops skills which cross over to other areas of welding. Plus it can be used anywhere you can't get power to.

The Oxy-fuel brazing process in my opinion is underutilized. A lot is going toward MIG brazing these days, especially with the new vehicles with new alloys that just can't be welded. There also seems to be some interest in TIG brazing, but I think you just don't get as good of a job TIG due to the way it heats. AirGas just sent me (free) about 50 pounds of bare brass rods they had deleted from inventory because it did not have the proper "plastic" container. I'm teaching that after the welding aspect. The school purchased brazing flux to go along with it. The area director wanted me to order brass with "pre fluxed" coating. I do not like those type because they are expensive and they do not last in humid conditions. They are messy as well. The only thing I am not familiar with is the new Radnor flux. It's some sort of paste type flux. I am used to using dry boron type flux and heating the rod and dipping into the flux to secure some a few inches on the rod. It shouldn't be too hard to adapt, but that paste flux seems messy to me. But as for applications of brazing, I've used it many times in making two dissimilar hydraulic fittings "mate" together, when it would take a long time to get the part or was too expensive, or even discontinued. I've brazed up steel hydraulic lines, fittings to tanks, used it to fill holes where it wasn't critical to strength, brazed up engine blocks, flanges, ears and other things cast iron...all with oxy acetylene.

 

[tkevan]

Jody Collier does a fine job of tig brazing.

 

[goeduck]

I like that #14 nickle bronze rod too. Sometimes it was called nickle silver but I don't believe there's any silver in it. It works almost exactly like regular brass brazing rod except like you say it has a higher surface tension as it melts. That's useful for doing free-hand work with the torch because a guy can wiggle the puddle into shapes as it melts. There used to be a whole world of non-ferrous rods available for oddball oxy/acetylene welding and brazing - but not so much anymore.

Here's a couple of examples of torch work along with a torch tip I made for doing fine work. The belt buckle's outer ring is regular low fuming brass or bronze rod wound around a piece of water pipe, brazed into a ring, and beaten into an oval over the horn of an anvil. The silver colored metal used for the inner design is that #14 nickel silver you mentioned.
The belt in the picture is 1 1/4" wide, so that buckle is about 1 1/2" tall overall.
enjoy,
rScotty

That is some really nice work. Good job!

 

[Gordon Gould]

Those are some nice buckles rScotty. Artistic brazing for sure !!

I brazed the 1/4" top plate onto my little work/welding cart so that it would stay flat and not get pulled down on the edges as it probably would if I stick welded it. It is plenty strong. I like the Lincoln flux coated bronze rods. Maybe this shows my lack of skill but for me this is a good place to braze.



gg

 

[yomax4]

I like that #14 nickle bronze rod too. Sometimes it was called nickle silver but I don't believe there's any silver in it. It works almost exactly like regular brass brazing rod except like you say it has a higher surface tension as it melts. That's useful for doing free-hand work with the torch because a guy can wiggle the puddle into shapes as it melts. There used to be a whole world of non-ferrous rods available for oddball oxy/acetylene welding and brazing - but not so much anymore.

Here's a couple of examples of torch work along with a torch tip I made for doing fine work. The belt buckle's outer ring is regular low fuming brass or bronze rod wound around a piece of water pipe, brazed into a ring, and beaten into an oval over the horn of an anvil. The silver colored metal used for the inner design is that #14 nickel silver you mentioned.
The belt in the picture is 1 1/4" wide, so that buckle is about 1 1/2" tall overall.
enjoy,
rScotty

Nickel Brass 14FC rods sorry. Not Silver. I have a bunch left but I think they were discontinued a while back. I used to make small deer antlers with it at shows. Everytime I turned my back another set was gone. Coolest brazing product I ever used.

 

[Rip]

Here's a couple of examples of torch work along with a torch tip I made for doing fine work. The belt buckle's outer ring is regular low fuming brass or bronze rod wound around a piece of water pipe, brazed into a ring, and beaten into an oval over the horn of an anvil. The silver colored metal used for the inner design is that #14 nickel silver you mentioned.
The belt in the picture is 1 1/4" wide, so that buckle is about 1 1/2" tall overall.
enjoy,
rScotty

Came across this post while researching brazing....my daily-wear belt buckle is very similar to the one shown but all yellow brass and a bit less detail....bought back in about 1975 in Boulder in or near the Pearl St. Mall at a place called ChuckleBuckle Fantacy....or similar...been on more than 6 to 8 belts in that time....still get lots of comments on it.....wonder if perhaps one of your early pieces?? I left the Rockies after about 40 years and after a bit of wondering now live in Australia.....Tasmania to be exact. Cheers, Rip

 

[WranglerX]

Quite often... Sort of application dependent...

Dale

 

[snymat68]

I'd be happy to try it, but I only have coat hangars made with steel wire. Never seen brass wire coat hangars. Steel wire is welding, brass is brazing.

Technically speaking, the materials have noting to do with the process. You could weld with brass, and you could braze with steel. The difference between brazing and welding is whether or not you're melting the base metal.

 

[Langanobob]

I like that #14 nickle bronze rod too. Sometimes it was called nickle silver but I don't believe there's any silver in it. It works almost exactly like regular brass brazing rod except like you say it has a higher surface tension as it melts. That's useful for doing free-hand work with the torch because a guy can wiggle the puddle into shapes as it melts. There used to be a whole world of non-ferrous rods available for oddball oxy/acetylene welding and brazing - but not so much anymore.

Here's a couple of examples of torch work along with a torch tip I made for doing fine work. The belt buckle's outer ring is regular low fuming brass or bronze rod wound around a piece of water pipe, brazed into a ring, and beaten into an oval over the horn of an anvil. The silver colored metal used for the inner design is that #14 nickel silver you mentioned.
The belt in the picture is 1 1/4" wide, so that buckle is about 1 1/2" tall overall.
enjoy,
rScotty

I know your post is a year or so old but I just want to comment. That is some nice work. I don't think I致e ever seen that kind of brazing work before. Thanks for posting the pics.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I agree with Mark. Brazing has almost become a lost art. Nice to know you are teaching it Mark. As Synmat said, "it's not the material it's's the process". Somewhere along he line the term brazing has been confused with brass. I have never used brass, always an alloy of bronze.

Bronze has tensile strength a lot closer to steel than than brass. Bronze w/boron flux has always been my go to for repairing various grades of cast and malleable iron. I have even re-attached broken off machinery base pieces. Never had one re-break when bolted back down. Key there is draw filing the base to assure flatness.

I probably have 10 different brazing alloys from bronze to high silver content. A lot of brazing is akin to soldering when you have an overlapping joint (such as copper/brass pipe/tube fittings) that you flow the alloy into the space by capillary action.

Had to pass a certification test for brazing 10,000 PSI diesel engine starting air piping, on Navy ships. The extra heavy bronze fittings had the brazing alloy as a insert ring. You had to sweat out the ring with no extra filler rod. Very few fitters/welders from the hall could pass that test. Leaks were expensive to repair. The brazing alloy was 60% silver. Same test was required for tube sheets on cupro-nickle heat exchanges. The dispatcher at the hall knew me well. Had contractors sub-contract with my current employers to get me on a small project quickly. It was always nice to be in demand. Now I can brag about those days; then it was just another job.

Ron

 

[Langanobob]

Never brazed for pay but one of my hobbies is restoring/repairing old machinery. I braze cast iron pretty often with pretty good results. Next on my list is to try TIG brazing. Got some I think it is aluminum bronze rod and looking forward to experimenting with it.

 

[rScotty]

Came across this post while researching brazing....my daily-wear belt buckle is very similar to the one shown but all yellow brass and a bit less detail....bought back in about 1975 in Boulder in or near the Pearl St. Mall at a place called ChuckleBuckle Fantacy....or similar...been on more than 6 to 8 belts in that time....still get lots of comments on it.....wonder if perhaps one of your early pieces?? I left the Rockies after about 40 years and after a bit of wondering now live in Australia.....Tasmania to be exact. Cheers, Rip

Rip, that's amazing. I bet it's one I made back then. Artistic brazing and welding has been a hobby of mine for a long time now. I'll send a PM.
rScotty

 

[Fallon]

Speaking of TIG brazing, can anybody comment on silver soldering with TIG? I need to connect some copper to steel.

I have some rebar I've welded up to reinforce the foundation & anchors that will eventually be buried in concrete for a HAM radio tower. I need to attach some copper to that rebar for grounding. I have the TIG welder, but no acetylene anything. You need to use high temp silver solder or such as normal solder can melt on you in a lightning strike.

I'm trying to figure out if I can get the job done with my TIG welder or need to beg, borrow or buy some acetylene rig. I've got some appropriate silver solder & flux. I assume I'd need to use at least a bit of argon to keep the tungsten clean. Not sure if the flux would help or hurt.

I've cleaned up the rebar well where things will connect up. Haven't done any testing yet on scraps & looking for advice before I get to that step.

 

[Langanobob]

Connecting a copper ground wire to rebar is a common grounding method called a Ufer Ground. All of the Ufer grounds I’ve seen have used grounding clamps to connect the copper wire to the steel. Never seen one brazed on and don’t see the need for it but then if I knew everything...

 

[radios1]

Speaking of TIG brazing, can anybody comment on silver soldering with TIG? I need to connect some copper to steel.

I have some rebar I've welded up to reinforce the foundation & anchors that will eventually be buried in concrete for a HAM radio tower. I need to attach some copper to that rebar for grounding. I have the TIG welder, but no acetylene anything. You need to use high temp silver solder or such as normal solder can melt on you in a lightning strike.

I'm trying to figure out if I can get the job done with my TIG welder or need to beg, borrow or buy some acetylene rig. I've got some appropriate silver solder & flux. I assume I'd need to use at least a bit of argon to keep the tungsten clean. Not sure if the flux would help or hurt.

I've cleaned up the rebar well where things will connect up. Haven't done any testing yet on scraps & looking for advice before I get to that step.

here's some info on that. What are the NEC Requirements for Grounding and Bonding Rebar? - E&S Grounding

 

[Scrambler82]

I have Brazed some projects but remember compared toweling it is like gluing something together.
Depending on the duty level required it works.

I WAS proficient in Brazing and have always wanted to learn TIG... just need the machine to try it out !

The TIG would replace most any Brazing !

 

[rScotty]

Speaking of TIG brazing, can anybody comment on silver soldering with TIG? I need to connect some copper to steel.

I have some rebar I've welded up to reinforce the foundation & anchors that will eventually be buried in concrete for a HAM radio tower. I need to attach some copper to that rebar for grounding. I have the TIG welder, but no acetylene anything. You need to use high temp silver solder or such as normal solder can melt on you in a lightning strike.

I'm trying to figure out if I can get the job done with my TIG welder or need to beg, borrow or buy some acetylene rig. I've got some appropriate silver solder & flux. I assume I'd need to use at least a bit of argon to keep the tungsten clean. Not sure if the flux would help or hurt.

I've cleaned up the rebar well where things will connect up. Haven't done any testing yet on scraps & looking for advice before I get to that step.

I think I'd use a normal grounding clamp .... of the screw clamp type that is commonly used to connect copper ground wire to the grounding rods for household current. Home Depot...I think that would stand a better chance of surviving long enough to pass the high current in a lightning strike. Corrosion and conductivity reduction probably don't mean much to a bolt of lightning that has just jumped a mile through atmosphere.

However, if you prefer to use TIG it won't be a problem. Copper welds to steel fairly well. No solder needed. You may find that using an intermediate bronze or copper rod in your other hand will help the weld. Use the heat of TIG arc just as you would use an acetylene torch, NOT letting the flame or arc ever touch the area you are welding until the weld is done and it is time to add a little heat to the surface to smooth things up.

I've not done large silver solder (silver brazing) joints like you propose, but have silver soldered copper to steel. It's a natural easy joint. If I was dead set on using silver bearing solder like you are suggesting, then I'd clean and prep the joint, coat it with flux and wind the joint with some of the silver soldering wire. Then strike an arc an inch away from the joint and let the heat flow to the joint. That way you get clean heat to do the work. Oh, and have a piece of silver solder in your other hand to stir the joint as the metals begin to flow.

Naturally it makes sense to practice first.
good luck,
rScotty - ex K5EZK

 

[Fallon]

It is in fact for a Ufer ground. I've got a pile of books on towers & general HAM radio related grounding, but they have been a little light on some of the details. In theory you are suppose to be able to dig up & inspect clamped grounds. The only option not requiring periodic inspections is exothermic welding (thermite) from what I've been able to determine. I've got a few 1 shot thermite kits for the ground rods, but they wouldn't have worked for the rebar for the tower base or guy anchors. Clamps would be considerably more convenient, but I've been under the impression it wouldn't be correct for this situation. Sounds like I should probably just try welding it first off on some test pieces & see how that goes. For some reason I was assuming I couldn't weld copper to steel, but I suppose that's otherwise given those thermite kits do it as well now that I think of it.

As far as the jumping across a mile of sky bit... Ya, but you want all that energy to go straight into the ground as directly as possible. Increased resistance from bad joints & what not means it's much more likely to find that easier path to ground through your house & electrical system than the grounds attached to the tower.

 

[mwayne]

Speaking of TIG brazing, can anybody comment on silver soldering with TIG? I need to connect some copper to steel.

I have some rebar I've welded up to reinforce the foundation & anchors that will eventually be buried in concrete for a HAM radio tower. I need to attach some copper to that rebar for grounding. I have the TIG welder, but no acetylene anything. You need to use high temp silver solder or such as normal solder can melt on you in a lightning strike.

I'm trying to figure out if I can get the job done with my TIG welder or need to beg, borrow or buy some acetylene rig. I've got some appropriate silver solder & flux. I assume I'd need to use at least a bit of argon to keep the tungsten clean. Not sure if the flux would help or hurt.

I've cleaned up the rebar well where things will connect up. Haven't done any testing yet on scraps & looking for advice before I get to that step.

For radio towers we always try to use exothermic welding:
nVent ERICO Cadweld Exothermic Connections
We have a couple of guys that have all the molds etc. What you could do is bring your ground rod, copper wire and a carbon steel coupon to an electrical contractor and have him make the exothermic welds in his shop. Then you can weld the coupon to the rebar onsite.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

NFPA 750 is your bible for lightning protection systems. NEC is not applicable.

Ron