Does it exist?

[Otto33]

Greetings everyone! Been lurking a while and thought it was time to jump in!

Looking for my first tractor, so here's my situation:

8 acres, gently sloped, mostly old pasture. 4 of that is planted in a new, mixed variety orchard.
Tractor duties will be (in order of importance)

1. Mowing. Ideally will be using a small flail to mulch cover crops, fallen fruit, limbs. Will also be mowing a vineyard with 7' rows.
2. Moving mulch, dirt, etc..
3. Light cultivating between rows of trees before planting cover crops.

What I THINK i want/need is
Something with a smallish footprint for mowing and maneuverability.
Something with as high PTO hp as i can find to run the flail.
Something with enough hydraulic oomph to lift the flail.
Weight isn't a huge concern, although I'd prefer more to less.
HST highly preferred.

The closest I've been able to fit these parameters is a Kioti CK2510. The CK2610 looks good, but it seems to be a considerably bigger machine.

The Mahindra Max line is attractive, but it is considerably more expensive than the Kioti.

Any other ideas? Not opposed to older tractors if any would fit the bill.

Thanks!

 

[nybirdman]

B2650 Kubota or maybe even a L2501.Neither has the pollution controls of the higher H.P.models.

 

[oosik]

Good morning Otto and welcome to TBN and the forum. If you look closely, I think you will find, most major tractor manufacturers make a narrow version tractor with around 50 hp. Its normally called their "vineyard model" or something similar to that. New, they are fairly expensive, but as a used unit with lower hours it might be what you are looking for.

 

[Grandad4]

Why would you want a heavy tractor for orchard work where minimizing soil compaction of the area surrounding your trees is - or should be - something to avoid?

 

[Otto33]

Why would you want a heavy tractor for orchard work where minimizing soil compaction of the area surrounding your trees is - or should be - something to avoid?

Yes, you are probably right about that.
There's something about a heavy for size tractor that is comforting, but clearly that's something I need to get over.

I appreciate the advice.

 

[jeff9366]

Yes, you are probably right about that.
There's something about a heavy for size tractor that is comforting, but clearly that's something I need to get over.

No it is not. Most people new to tractoring are surprised/appalled how unstable traditional tractors are. Plus, you will be operating on sloped ground. Heavier tractors are more stable under load and on slopes than light tractors, something I would weight as a newbie purchasing a tractor for the first time.

Another option is to have wheel spacers installed to spread the rear wheels 3" on each side. Wheel spacers are around $300/pair, plus installation. Installation would likely be 'free' on a new tractor purchase, as tractors arrive at dealers without wheels installed to save space on the truck. Six inches of added width makes a BIG difference in stability.
LINK: Bro-Tek

Vineyard specialty tractors are expensive new as volumes are limited. No Vineyard Tractor that I know of is available with a loader.

For cultivating you probably want a PTO powered Roto-tiller, adjusted to cultivate shallow. Roto-tillers require minimum tractor horsepower. Most, not all, unpowered Three Point Hitch cultivators will not stand up to the work you propose.

A Rotary Cutter/Bush Hog requires less maintenance than a flail. But to each his own.

You did not specify it but I am sure you want a Front End Loader to work as a tractor powered wheelbarrow.

Over simplifying somewhat, tractors come in 48" width, then 60" width. Not much in between. When considering implements, a 48"/60" implement will have that WORKING width, OVERALL width is a bit wider.

Your first big decision is whether you can make do with a tractor with 9" of ground clearance or need a tractor with the more traditional 12" to 14" ground clearance.

I too recommend looking at the Kubota L2501.

Kioti makes a fine tractor, as does LS, both equal in quality to Kubota, in my opinion.

 

[ericm979]

How wide a mower do you want to use? That will determine the HP, 3pt lift and weight requirements.

 

[Otto33]

How wide a mower do you want to use? That will determine the HP, 3pt lift and weight requirements.

Yes, that's the other part of the equation I'm struggling with. I'd like to at least cover my tracks. I'm guessing a 5 ft flail would be the absolute max I'd be able to run. Hydraulic side shifting would be great to help mow around trees, although that really increases the weight and narrows down the options.

 

[jeff9366]

Off-set anything is not for sloped ground.

 

[Cataclysm]

No it is not. Most people new to tractoring are surprised/appalled how unstable traditional tractors are. Plus, you will be operating on sloped ground. Heavier tractors are more stable under load and on slopes than light tractors, something I would weight as a newbie purchasing a tractor for the first time.

Another option is to have wheel spacers installed to spread the rear wheels 3" on each side. Wheel spacers are around $300/pair, plus installation. Installation would likely be 'free' on a new tractor purchase, as tractors arrive at dealers without wheels installed to save space on the truck. Six inches of added width makes a BIG difference in stability.
LINK: Bro-Tek

Vineyard specialty tractors are expensive new as volumes are limited. No Vineyard Tractor that I know of is available with a loader.

For cultivating you probably want a PTO powered Roto-tiller, adjusted to cultivate shallow. Roto-tillers require minimum tractor horsepower. Most, not all, unpowered Three Point Hitch cultivators will not stand up to the work you propose.

A Rotary Cutter/Bush Hog requires less maintenance than a flail. But to each his own.

You did not specify it but I am sure you want a Front End Loader to work as a tractor powered wheelbarrow.

Over simplifying somewhat, tractors come in 48" width, then 60" width. Not much in between. When considering implements, a 48"/60" implement will have that WORKING width, OVERALL width is a bit wider.

Your first big decision is whether you can make do with a tractor with 9" of ground clearance or need a tractor with the more traditional 12" to 14" ground clearance.

I too recommend looking at the Kubota L2501.

Kioti makes a fine tractor, as does LS, both equal in quality to Kubota, in my opinion.

X2.

Look at getting turfs (R3) or industrial (R4) tires and load them for stability. The R3/R4's will provide a big foot print and minimize compaction. Based on what you have posted your probably looking at a 60" wide tractor and it will probably be around 25 to 30 hp. Your probably looking at a 60" wide flail or RC (rotary cutter). Any of the modern 25/30 hp tractors will easily spin a 60" flail or 60" RC.

 

[Otto33]

Thanks so much everyone. You've given me a lot to consider.

 

[rgr33]

I am in the same situation as you, Otto. 10 acres sloped, with vineyard, orchard, and grassland to be worked.

I wonder if 25 hp is enough, especially with HST and on sloping ground. You might give some thought to something in the 30 to 35 hp range. My 27 hp JD struggles under load going up the hill once in a while, the 33 hp doesn't. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Otto33]

Yes, I'm wondering if something like an older (maybe pre-DPF) B3030 or B3200 might be better suited to what I'm wanting to do.

 

[jeff9366]

Consider engine displacement along with horsepower. These are DIESEL tractors.

Kubota L2501 = 25 horsepower from 100 cubic inches. This model "punches above its weight."

 

[jeff9366]

Here is an un-powered, modular cultivating implement that might work for you:

VIDEO UNVERFERTH "PERFECTA": Cultivating with a Perfecta - YouTube

Perfectas come in 48" and 60" widths ~~~~~ and up.

Perfecta in video and PTO powered roto-tillers are priced about the same.

 

[Otto33]

Here is an un-powered, modular cultivating implement that might work for you:

VIDEO UNVERFERTH "PERFECTA": Cultivating with a Perfecta - YouTube

Perfectas come in 48" and 60" widths ~~~~~ and up.

Perfecta in video and PTO powered roto-tillers are priced about the same.

Wow! Thanks! That is slick. I've even got a dealer a few miles away. Might be time for a field trip.

 

[AxleHub]

Otto,

A couple years ago I met someone who had some similar needs as yours. . A small country farmette of 10 acres. Higher land and lower land with a large pond. He wanted to use a 3pt tiller and a flail and mow some lawn. Etc. Etc.. He had fallen to the weakness of believing heavier and bigger is always better as he bought a new LS that gave him problems one after the other.

I suggested he consider a Massey GC1715 sub compact for all the reasons he had but none of the problems he had.

He got better maneuvering capability and a SCUT GC1715 will do very well on slopes (as I personally know) . . . because it is not high off the ground and its weight sits lower for center of gravity needs. It's center of gravity was far better than his mid sized compact LS and adding a smaller sized spacer (like 2 inches) to a scut - makes a large change also because the cog is already preferred. And he could not only handle the slopes well but he had better turning radius and closer handling to his trees and corners and tighter areas. . so his time to accomplish jobs was about efficiency. . . not size. My point to him was - anyone can cut or work in wide open spaces - but far fewer can work efficiently in smaller and narrower spaces and lanes.

He could lift 700 and 800 pounds with his loader which was more than ample for his needs. . But more importantly . . . he could use it in tighter spots as well as open areas. His flail works well and his tiller runs great but his tractor with turf tires does NOT crush the dirt he works so hard to plant and grow for ground cover or under-cover with corn as the top cover. If he had 5 times the land. . He'd have a lot more open land to work on and then the larger LS would have been fine. But the point is. . . he didn't have 5 times the size. And if he wants to lift a 500 pound log or 600 or 700 . . . He can . . . But most of his logs are 300 and 400 pounds. . so he still can - but again do it around tighter areas.

The point is. . . Would you rather hire a laborer who is big and strong. . . Or one who is smaller and faster and uses leverage and efficiency as his focus. If you have big jobs in big spaces - don't get a scut. But your description does not indicate big jobs in big spaces.

Many claim bigger and heavier are "always" the way to go. . but that is a fallacy. Fit the capabilities to the needs and not to the weight. If you need lots of ground clearance in woods or heavily plowed rough fields - then buy a compact. . . but understand that slopes will be a greater challenge - doable - but more challenging.

My friend has been incredibly happy with his Massey gc1715. He chose compact size the first time and chose SCUT size the second time. . . Then looked at numerous brands and agreed the Massey in the 25 horse with the dl95 loader capabilities was his choice to work with his tiller and flail. Name brand - not off brand - long history of designing and building scuts - the tractor and the engines - made by the same entity.

He also is doing some snow plowing with it. . . again the Turf tires gives him great traction.

If you look at Kubota - then the BX2680 is the one to compare to or JD 1025. If you need a good backhoe - then the Massey GC1720 (same GC1715 plus integrated backhoe).

jmho