Buying Advice Southern VT Newbie Advice

[shovelmike]

Welcome to TBN, Bullwinkle.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

The way to log big property for the home owner when confronted with longer cycles, is with a trailer which would act as a mini forwarder. Put forks or a grapple on your fel and dump stems onto the trailer. I'd get a narrow 10 or 12' dump trailer and bring it with me into the wood attached to the tractor. I'd get all of my firewood in with it in 2 or 3 days. Between the tractor, implements, trailer and gasifier, you're looking at 50-60K but you'll have a lot of fun on this short time we have here on earth.

I would like to pm you with a couple questions on your gasifier if you don't mind.

Good stuff. The boiler is really a wishlist item, I'm not sure I'm ready to let it drive the purchase of the tractor, though the advice I'm hearing about sizing the tractor to the logging job is definitely being heard.

My boiler need is not for a whole house, or even a required regular heating supply. It's a ... quality of life ... item, therefore wishlist. My plumber has stopped installing and servicing these because the brand he was using was so unreliable in the lifetime of the boiler. Just finding a reliable brand of boiler sounds like it will be a challenge in and of itself but I have more work to do researching this, and I won't do it at all if I don't have the tractor for it, though I won't be out gathering 10+ cords a year for it, well, I don't anticipate that anyway. Anyway, assuming I'm getting the cart anyway for various cleanups, the cart+grapple thing sounds good to me, and fills muiltiple needs.

 

[arrow]

Good stuff. The boiler is really a wishlist item, I'm not sure I'm ready to let it drive the purchase of the tractor, though the advice I'm hearing about sizing the tractor to the logging job is definitely being heard.

My boiler need is not for a whole house, or even a required regular heating supply. It's a ... quality of life ... item, therefore wishlist. My plumber has stopped installing and servicing these because the brand he was using was so unreliable in the lifetime of the boiler. Just finding a reliable brand of boiler sounds like it will be a challenge in and of itself but I have more work to do researching this, and I won't do it at all if I don't have the tractor for it, though I won't be out gathering 10+ cords a year for it, well, I don't anticipate that anyway. Anyway, assuming I'm getting the cart anyway for various cleanups, the cart+grapple thing sounds good to me, and fills muiltiple needs.

My advice is based on my experience logging several ways. My tractor does basically two things: Plows snow and does logging. I skid all of my wood in and since I no longer own the hundred acres, I don't go beyond that 1/4 mile mark. I have 3 fused discs and ruptured one of them just this past spring. I initially hurt my back playing HS foot ball. Then getting into a logging career just escalated things back wise, to a point where it actually began strengthening my back as the years went by. Currently I need the Predator to come by and rip out this vertebrae and he give me one of his trophy ones. He'd just throw mine away because it is no trophy so he might be a bit reticent with this negotiation.

At any rate, you live on a large enough parcel to be able to do all your heating with wood. You need a tractor for several reasons but still base it on logging as that will be its toughest job.

I'm afraid a "cart" just isn't gonna do it for ya as you can get to a "ton" of wood very quickly. This one pictured with the tractor weighed 1700 lbs and would have collapsed most "carts" if I had cut it to size to fit on one. I would want as strong enough trailer to take this one, along with some of his brothers and sisters if traveling deep into the wood. You'll use a dump trailer a lot on your property if you got one anyway.

As far as wood boilers, there are a lot of them currently on the market. Tarm, Froeling (which I believe what Tarms are called now) Wood Gun, etc. Unfortunately, they have thrown a lot of computerized electronics into the works so finding a simple one might be a chore even if they do exist.
Heating with wood is a way of life for me and my tractor is an essential piece of that equation. You don't need to get serious about it all but I'd guess if it were simply a matter of "occasional" wood burning, then I might just get a wood stove as opposed to a boiler.
I should have gotten a wood "boiler" a long time ago.

 

[nards444]

So here is an idea and maybe run the numbers get a quote and think hard about it. Pave your driveway. I know it all comes down to cost cost, but you can get it done from around a little less than $2 a sq ft to about $4 a sq ft depending on how much site work, grade of material etc. I just paved around 500ft and it cost me around 12k after i put the rock down. That driveway will last 10 years after 10 years it will probably last longer if I am willing to deal with cracks and dips, even then I could just top coat it for a fraction of the cost of 12k. I know i know still cost. Im telling you I know people around here who have more time and money into a gravel driveway then they would just paving it. Plus with paving its easier to plow, keeps vehicles cleaner and not as much dirt near and and in the house.

 

[nards444]

My advice is based on my experience logging several ways. My tractor does basically two things: Plows snow and does logging. I skid all of my wood in and since I no longer own the hundred acres, I don't go beyond that 1/4 mile mark. I have 3 fused discs and ruptured one of them just this past spring. I initially hurt my back playing HS foot ball. Then getting into a logging career just escalated things back wise, to a point where it actually began strengthening my back as the years went by. Currently I need the Predator to come by and rip out this vertebrae and he give me one of his trophy ones. He'd just throw mine away because it is no trophy so he might be a bit reticent with this negotiation.

At any rate, you live on a large enough parcel to be able to do all your heating with wood. You need a tractor for several reasons but still base it on logging as that will be its toughest job.

I'm afraid a "cart" just isn't gonna do it for ya as you can get to a "ton" of wood very quickly. This one pictured with the tractor weighed 1700 lbs and would have collapsed most "carts" if I had cut it to size to fit on one. I would want as strong enough trailer to take this one, along with some of his brothers and sisters if traveling deep into the wood. You'll use a dump trailer a lot on your property if you got one anyway.

As far as wood boilers, there are a lot of them currently on the market. Tarm, Froeling (which I believe what Tarms are called now) Wood Gun, etc. Unfortunately, they have thrown a lot of computerized electronics into the works so finding a simple one might be a chore even if they do exist.
Heating with wood is a way of life for me and my tractor is an essential piece of that equation. You don't need to get serious about it all but I'd guess if it were simply a matter of "occasional" wood burning, then I might just get a wood stove as opposed to a boiler.
I should have gotten a wood "boiler" a long time ago.

Yeah occasional wood burning a wood burner is probably smarter. But I will say this about wood boilers. My furnace went out and had somebody try and sell me wood boiler. Cost to install was about 15k and thats pretty standard around here. Cost to replace current furnace was 3500. Yes i will always pay for propane about 1000 or so a year thats also cooking as well. But thinking about this wood boiler if the wood isnt free the money never works out really. If the wood is free, I still had to factor the cost of equipment to harvest wood, and money for gas, oil, and break fix maint. Laying it all out id have to burn wood forever to break even on the investment around here. and thats not factoring in my time cutting, stacking, and feeding the fire, my time is worth something. Plus the fact in -10 weather I would have to walk outside to feed the thing.

Listen I get it for some people location demands what they have, and every situation is different, and some people just like to burn wood. Just when I ran numbers it was a decade at its best of breaking even on the purchase, now if I had invested in a large tractor for the purpose etc, i would probably never break even. Only reason I point this out is sometimes people get this illusion on something like, oh wow I can burn wood its free but dont think about the legacy costs

 

[dodge man]

I have a fireplace that will heat my house unless its really cold, but I use it just for "fun". I already need a tractor and a chainsaw so the only real cost was the splitter. If I was older and had a back that was a problem I'd skip the wood boiler idea all together.

A grapple? I'd love to have one but they are expensive. Forks can take their place, just not as well. For my 3 acres, which is about 1 acres of trees/brush, I just toss the branches into the woods and let them rot.

 

[arrow]

i would probably never break even. Only reason I point this out is sometimes people get this illusion on something like, oh wow I can burn wood its free but dont think about the legacy costs

You can certainly look at it as an accountant would. As you allude, for me, there is a value to it that cannot be measured with money. I simply "belong" in the woods more so than any other place.

. For me, "wood" was primary and the tractor secondary to what I needed to do if it were not logging.

Reading more of Bullwinkles posts, I've changed my mind for him as far as tractor size. I first recommended that 4000-5000 lb machine. A machine my size ( 2500 lbs bare) would do him well. He'll use it for a myriad of chores w/o breaking the bank.

This forum has always provided answers for me even if no one had the "spot on" advice. A series of posts on this forum has helped me formulate my "end" idea by reading the myriad of opinion and taking things into account as I sift through the contributions. I hope it works for everyone this way as well. There comes a point when too much "detail" becomes a detriment to one's own "feel" for the need. Enlightenment comes with perusal.

 

[redman135]

Hello bullwinkle123, 1) re aging, if you can afford it go for a cab with a/c and heat. Some members have bought open station tractors then several years later have to sell a perfectly good tractor to get a cab model as the cold/heat can no longer but tolerated.
2) google "reversable tractor" and ventrac
3)gooogle "multi coupler" this little device makes coupling hydraulic hoses a breeze, also works under preassure.
4) cat1 (catagory 1) or cat2 (catagory 2) refers to the ball size at the end of the rear lift arms. At about the 60hp mark is the size change over. Cat 2 attatchments are heavier and cost more.

Lastly, at this stage you are getting ideas to figure out what questions you need to ask.

good luck

 

[nards444]

You can certainly look at it as an accountant would. As you allude, for me, there is a value to it that cannot be measured with money. I simply "belong" in the woods more so than any other place.

. For me, "wood" was primary and the tractor secondary to what I needed to do if it were not logging.

Reading more of Bullwinkles posts, I've changed my mind for him as far as tractor size. I first recommended that 4000-5000 lb machine. A machine my size ( 2500 lbs bare) would do him well. He'll use it for a myriad of chores w/o breaking the bank.

This forum has always provided answers for me even if no one had the "spot on" advice. A series of posts on this forum has helped me formulate my "end" idea by reading the myriad of opinion and taking things into account as I sift through the contributions. I hope it works for everyone this way as well. There comes a point when too much "detail" becomes a detriment to one's own "feel" for the need. Enlightenment comes with perusal.

Thank you. And dont take it the wrong way, like I said some people would burn wood if it cost them 3 times more, its a hobby I get that. My only point was is some or even a lot of folks fail to see the whole picture. I had friends raise chickens in the name of saving money. They tried to talk us into it. We sat down and said ok what was your cost, building a coop, to buy chickens, feed, medicine, and then effort. Worked out that the chicken was twice the money then in the store and 3 times the effort to put that same piece of meat on the table. Then the argument turned into we just like to eat what we make or raise, which again Im fine with that, but often times the living off the land just inst cheaper. My mentality is for basic life needs, maintaining property is the accountant view, I wouldnt say cheap but i try to accomplish the basic task of food, water, shelter the most effective and least time consuming way, as I have better things to do and prefer my money goes elsewhere. I can appreciate people that enjoy living off the land to speak.

 

[fruitcakesa]

Thank you. And dont take it the wrong way, like I said some people would burn wood if it cost them 3 times more, its a hobby I get that. My only point was is some or even a lot of folks fail to see the whole picture. I had friends raise chickens in the name of saving money. They tried to talk us into it. We sat down and said ok what was your cost, building a coop, to buy chickens, feed, medicine, and then effort. Worked out that the chicken was twice the money then in the store and 3 times the effort to put that same piece of meat on the table. Then the argument turned into we just like to eat what we make or raise, which again Im fine with that, but often times the living off the land just inst cheaper. My mentality is for basic life needs, maintaining property is the accountant view, I wouldnt say cheap but i try to accomplish the basic task of food, water, shelter the most effective and least time consuming way, as I have better things to do and prefer my money goes elsewhere. I can appreciate people that enjoy living off the land to speak.

One definitely needs to look at the entire "lifetime cost" of a choice but to paraphrase you, to each his own.
I am one who likes to work in the woods and reap what it has to offer for me and my family.
Managing a 50 acre woodland requires regular activity and it is financially worthwhile beyond the "free" wood I harvest.
In Vermont we get a property tax break for proper forest management.
I am not a church going person but spending time in the woods provides a spiritual connection for me.
Plus I like the challenge of figuring out how to access rugged portions of my land, falling uncooperative trees and getting them back to my landing; it keeps me on my toes and truth to tell, wood gathering and processing is really the only real exercise I get ; I am not a gym rat!