Dog vs. cat vs. cops

[Sigarms]

Philadelphia is one of those cities, but one aspect of PA law lets them get away with certain restrictions. The only restriction I know of is the requirement to have a concealled carry permit even if carrying opening (which is a PA Constitution right). This restriction is limited to "Cities of the First Class" (populations exceeding one million, I believe).
Philadelphia is the only city (in PA) that meets that criteria.

BTW, other then Philadelphia (or, "Filthydelphia" as we lovingly refer to it), carrying openly is quite legal with no permit...but the grey area is when one is carrying openly while driving a vehicle. No settled case law there...

Philly was one of the cities I thought of when I wrote that comment. I use to CC in Pa when I worked/lived in Pa back in the 90's, and I could be wrong, but back then, it was at least an unwritten rule not to carry in that town. Fact is, Pa was one of the easiest places to get a cc permit. No class, down to the sheriff's office, card in the mail next day.

One of the other towns is Chicago (any town worse?). Anytime we use to drive out west to hunt (living in the Northeast at the time) we always planned on driving through at 0300 LOL Getting off the subject, but I believe no city can impede your right to travel through their city limits as long as firearms and ammo are locked separately in a compartment that you don't have access to while driving and you are only driving. I do know when we use to go up to NY for some comp shoots we had to take our paperwork with us while driving through if we ever got stopped. NY was more than interesting when I moved there and had firearms.

 

[JB4310]

Two of my neighbors are policemen, one is an officer on the Michigan State University campus. Used to be that CCW was banned on campus, but when state law took precedent over MSU regulations, CCW became legal on parts of the campus. Needless to say, my neighbor and his fellow officers were very upset with the change, mainly because MSU has a reputation for being a "party school".

I myself don't think guns on college campuses is a great idea, concealed or open. Not sure where NRA comes down on the matter?

I do know when we use to go up to NY for some comp shoots we had to take our paperwork with us while driving through if we ever got stopped. NY was more than interesting when I moved there and had firearms.

I thought upstate was no problem?
New York City and guns? Fuhgetaboutit!!!

I live in a suburban town that long ago banned the discharge of firearms, though the police have a range behind the highway garage and use it often, for hours at a time some days. Judging by how much ammo they go thru, they are either really good marksmen or really bad shots and are still trying to learn

Our town ordinances have an exception to allow the shooting of "nuisance and destructive animals". I often thought of challenging that exception and shoot a squirrel or a rabbit with a .22, that's doing damage in my yard.

I'm pretty sure they would take that exception out as soon as someone reported such an incidence, especialy since we only have a couple farms left.

JB.

 

[Sigarms]

I thought upstate was no problem?

Is that New York City "upstate" in the Catskills, or the real upstate NY?

Personally, and only a matter of opinion, but NYC and Albany ruined it for the entire state. Although NY isn't as bad as Jersey or Mass, it really is a step in the wrong direction.

I often thought of challenging that exception and shoot a squirrel or a rabbit with a .22, that's doing damage in my yard.

Just pick up some low velocity ammo and no one will ever know you pulled the trigger. Believe me (just remember, bolt action for the quite stuff as you won't be able to cycle a semi auto).

 

[JDgreen227]

Philadelphia is one of those cities, but one aspect of PA law lets them get away with certain restrictions. The only restriction I know of is the requirement to have a concealled carry permit even if carrying opening (which is a PA Constitution right). This restriction is limited to "Cities of the First Class" (populations exceeding one million, I believe).
Philadelphia is the only city (in PA) that meets that criteria.

When carrying openly (I do, but rarely...although I carry concealled frequently), one can expect harrassment from some law enforcement...but there have been several lawsuits and the firearm carrier normally win the case. In Philly, the charge is normally "disorderly conduct" or something foolish like that...and the charges are normally dropped before prosecution....just harrassment. Getting your frearm back can be a daunting task though (which is why I'd never carry a high dollar firearm).

BTW, other then Philadelphia (or, "Filthydelphia" as we lovingly refer to it), carrying openly is quite legal with no permit...but the grey area is when one is carrying openly while driving a vehicle. No settled case law there...

Roy, here in Michigan legal owners of firearms can "open carry" anyplace where not specifically restricted. There was a huge uproar recently when some guys exercised that right to open carry firearms into a library. Not too sure about the end result, however.

I sincerely wish there were UNIFORM and NATIONWIDE laws for firearms that would apply equally everywhere, instead of the current and confusing mish mash of state, city, federal, etc. laws.

 

[JB4310]

Do a google search "open carry law challenge" or something along those lines.

Santa Fe Police Confront Man for Open Carring Legally - YouTube

There are all kinds of videos about people challenging LEO with their open carry rights in very public places. In this link the idiot walks right up to the cop during a traffic stop.
I guarantee if someone did that around here, things would get pretty ugly in a hurry. Then they are filming it and refusing to give their name.
The cops all seem to be very cool and patient, like they have been briefed on how to react. Around here cops go into a crisis situation at the mere mention of a gun.

We've had college kids get their cameras and cell phones taken away and had their heads lumped up a little, just for filming cops breaking up sorority keg parties.

I'm all for our rights, but I think this is pushing the envelope and could back fire on legitimate non confrontational gun owners.

Or maybe they just have me scared into submission???

JB.

 

[RoyJackson]

Do a google search "open carry law challenge" or something along those lines.

Santa Fe Police Confront Man for Open Carring Legally - YouTube

There are all kinds of videos about people challenging LEO with their open carry rights in very public places. In this link the idiot walks right up to the cop during a traffic stop.
I guarantee if someone did that around here, things would get pretty ugly in a hurry. Then they are filming it and refusing to give their name.

We've had college kids get their cameras and cell phones taken away and had their heads lumped up a little, just for filming cops breaking up sorority keg parties.

I'm all for our rights, but I think this is pushing the envelope and could back fire on legitimate non confrontational gun owners.

Or maybe they just have me scared into submission???

JB.

Actually, it's the cops that need to understand rights. In PA, the complaints (and lawsuits) against the PA State Police got so bad, the cops had to take special training on carry rights. Nice thing..the Attorney-General (of PA) who made the determination about the training is now the Governor (he's doing a great job too!).
Open carry folks in PA are very very motivated about this right and make no bones about it. Don't ever let a cop or other government employee scare you into submission about YOUR rights!!
Now, that said...I normally (95% of the time) carry concealed. This has nothing to do with rights. I just do not want most folks know I'm carrying a firearm.

 

[JB4310]

Actually, it's the cops that need to understand rights. In PA, the complaints (and lawsuits) against the PA State Police got so bad, the cops had to take special training on carry rights. Nice thing..the Attorney-General (of PA) who made the determination about the training is now the Governor (he's doing a great job too!).
Open carry folks in PA are very very motivated about this right and make no bones about it. Don't ever let a cop or other government employee scare you into submission about YOUR rights!!
Now, that said...I normally (95% of the time) carry concealed. This has nothing to do with rights. I just do not want most folks know I'm carrying a firearm.

In most places concealed carry is a greater right than open carry (more diffecult to obtain)

But in my state we only have CC so it seems odd for me to see these videos of people carrying open, and challenging the LEO's. I do believe there should be some common sense, carrying open in a public library :confused2: unless it's a one horse town that doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Here even carrying concealed in certain public places could be considered "poor judgement" and be grounds of revocation of permit.

IMO concealed carry is much better for personal defense as you maintain that critical element of surprise. I know some would argue open carry would act as a deterrent to crime, but to me all you're doing is tipping your hand to someone who may mean you harm.

JB

 

[The Haymaker]

In most places concealed carry is a greater right than open carry (more diffecult to obtain)

But in my state we only have CC so it seems odd for me to see these videos of people carrying open, and challenging the LEO's. I do believe there should be some common sense, carrying open in a public library :confused2: unless it's a one horse town that doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Here even carrying concealed in certain public places could be considered "poor judgement" and be grounds of revocation of permit.

IMO concealed carry is much better for personal defense as you maintain that critical element of surprise. I know some would argue open carry would act as a deterrent to crime, but to me all you're doing is tipping your hand to someone who may mean you harm.

JB

Nice to see I am not the only one who can shout "I have good sense!" louder than "This is my right!".

 

[JDgreen227]

In most places concealed carry is a greater right than open carry (more diffecult to obtain)

But in my state we only have CC so it seems odd for me to see these videos of people carrying open, and challenging the LEO's. I do believe there should be some common sense, carrying open in a public library :confused2: unless it's a one horse town that doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Here even carrying concealed in certain public places could be considered "poor judgement" and be grounds of revocation of permit.

IMO concealed carry is much better for personal defense as you maintain that critical element of surprise. I know some would argue open carry would act as a deterrent to crime, but to me all you're doing is tipping your hand to someone who may mean you harm.

JB

Well stated, although I could get a CC license I don't really feel the need to do so, and would hestitate to OC for the same reason, AND, I would be concerned about someone pointing their weapon at me BECAUSE they wanted my firearm, which was visible. With CC you wouldn't have that issue.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I had a CC permit for a while, but never renewed it once it expired. The main reason I got it was so that I could buy a gun without a waiting period. I also carried a handgun in a backpack occasionally when hiking. If I remember the rules right, Idaho restricts weapons whether concealed or not in certain public places like schools, churches, etc.

Funny story, I would occasionally hand my CCW permit to a LEO by mistake instead of my driver's license at a traffic stop. It was always fun to see the officer back pedal and start asking if there were weapons in the vehicle. I don't ever remember getting a ticket when I pulled my concealed weapons permit out by mistake. Maybe I should have done that more often.