Drainage for a garden

[City Farmer]

I need a little help on the best way to drain my (40'x80') garden of excess rain water. I've had the garden 5 years, the first 2 were great, so many vegetables I couldn't give them away fast enough. One was ok but the last 2 were a total loss. I have a rain water drainage creek at one end of my garden. My brother told me to put some 4" socked perforated under the garden but I'm concerned about running it over with the tiller in the spring when the ground is wet. Is it better to mound the rows or put some sort of drainage? I can pretty much do whatever needs to be done. I've got a Ford 3000 & 4400 with a BH, 60" tiller, 60" box scraper, middle buster, back blade, PHD, 2 bottom plow and a small set of disc's. If I need another tool to get the job done I'll buy it, I just want it fixed once and for all. One last question, I have access to all the free horse manure I want, is it to late to add it to the garden for this season? We're about 2.5 months before I'll plant. Thanks in advance. Here is a picture of what I'm working with, the creek is at the left of the picture hidden by the Phragmites that have taken over everywhere around here these last 10yrs.

 

[Ed of all trades]

The big question I have is how much lower than the garden is the creek, or is there somewhere else you can drain to.

 

[City Farmer]

The big question I have is how much lower than the garden is the creek, or is there somewhere else you can drain to.

Believe it or not the creek is lower by about a foot at its highest, that's standing rain water that won't run off. There's clay under the little bit of top soil I have. I got in there with a shovel for a couple hours and was able to get most of that standing water off but it was to late. It was looking great in the begining but everything drowned except the corn. I thought of hilling/mounding but I like to go between the rows with my 12" walk behind tiller once a week to take care of the weeds. If I could make mounds 5' wide 10"-12" high I'd do that but I don't know where to start. Could I put the tiller on a steep angle and plant on the sides or put a trench to the creek between the rows? I'm kinda reaching now, I'm not sure what would be best but I have to try something. There's nothing worse than putting in all that work just to have a heavy rain take it away.

 

[dave1949]

Well, ideally the drainage pipe you put in should have its outlet above the water level in the ditch. When the ditch is full, that is when you need the drain to work the most. So, that doesn't give you enough depth to keep the drain pipes from being frosted and heaved. If I am seeing it correctly, drainage pipes aren't going to be a very good solution.

Maybe you could build up the height of the garden on the side opposite the ditch to create a gently sloping surface for runoff. 1/4 to 1/2 inch per foot should be enough. If your garden is 40 foot wide, 1/4" per foot would need: .25" x 40 = 10 inches. So, if you can raise one side by 10-20 inches, it should drain the surface water to the ditch. If you use sand, which is plentiful in MI, mixed with your existing top soil to raise the garden, and add organic material to that with the horse manure compost, it should help a lot.

 

[RxRatedZ71]

We had hardpacked red clay here in Oklahoma and gypsum will help to break up the clay. It worked great in our flowerbeds. You may check with your local ag extension if it would work for your soil.

Could you create a sloped surface by just "digging in" on one end and moving it to the other end? Then just run a section of pipe to relieve runoff/standing water at the lower end. Or maybe plant some lower growing plants to disperse the water around your garden so it doesnt all flow just to one area..

 

[Stimw]

If the horse squeese is old or properly composted now is the best time to till it in. It will enhance the soil and make it better.
You don't want to add it fresh with your planting window that close.
I have been using horse squeese for about 4 years. I give it about 4-6 months in a compost pile that I turn regularly. The biggest problem I have with it is WEEDS!!! Even after lengthy composting the weeds keep coming up. I sprayed my garden 3 times late last summer/fall with double strength Round-Up and you would never know it!
I bought a 4' tiller about 5 years ago and it was the best money ever spent. It grinds up the dirt so fine that it looks like coffee grounds or saw dust. Anything organic that you can add will help. Chicken squeese is the overall best.

 

[Reyer Farms]

If the horse squeese is old or properly composted now is the best time to till it in. It will enhance the soil and make it better.
You don't want to add it fresh with your planting window that close.
I have been using horse squeese for about 4 years. I give it about 4-6 months in a compost pile that I turn regularly. The biggest problem I have with it is WEEDS!!! Even after lengthy composting the weeds keep coming up. I sprayed my garden 3 times late last summer/fall with double strength Round-Up and you would never know it!
I bought a 4' tiller about 5 years ago and it was the best money ever spent. It grinds up the dirt so fine that it looks like coffee grounds or saw dust. Anything organic that you can add will help. Chicken squeese is the overall best.

Doubling your round up is not helping you. Too strong is as bad as too weak. We use roundup very very little. It's just not worth the risk in losing a crop. It needs time to go all the way to root & kill it, too strong kinda just burns it back and root does not any.
As far as water drainage- raised rows are great for drainage and moisture control to plant. Water will run down hill if you let it, it's can help and hurt when you raise rows. Lay out is key. If you can, quick way would be to bottom plow throwing dirt up hill. You will move you soil uniformly and your plants will love the deep broke soil ( ESP tomatoes). Disc to level out and plant your heart out! Have fun.

 

[Halftrack]

The attachment I did not see listed was a subsoiler. With the type of soil you described, I would be afraid you have developed a "hard pan" under your garden, prohibiting moisture flow. Your relatively heavy tractors and overworking of the soil will hasten the formation of a hard pan and the cure is subsoiling 18" to 24" deep fall and spring. Your middlebuster could be converted with a subsoiler shank, if it will reach that deep. I use one that will penetrate 24" and all the neighbors have noticed the improvement in their gardens. The last couple of mild winters have lessened the benefits of winter freezing/heaving which also disrupts hand pans. Good luck.

 

[City Farmer]

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate everyone's input. I have a few things to consider now. I'm sure I could rig something up to sub-soil. I have a 3pt trailer moving implement I could attach a subsoiler to really easy. I've been reading up on the horse manure and everything I gather is it can be added anytime as long as your not going to harvest your crops within (90 days) for above ground veggies and (120 days) for below ground veggies. I'm not to worried about weeds, I'll till them under like i do every year. I really like the mounding idea with the plow, I never woulda thought of that. One pass and that would give me a row almost 3' wide, then do a top disc or light till to bust up the clumps and plant.

 

[schmism]

we heavly hill our rows. the water gathers in the low areas leaving the hills dry. This is also how they irrigate in the rest of the world (with ditches between rows)

in the off season you can use a box blade or simular to put a 1" or more fall on the garden so that ditches between rows at least have a little fall. After that you wind up with a wet end and dry end. we learned to plant different stuff in the different areas based on timming (wet early in the spring, but toms arnt planted yet so plant them at the "wet" end after the wet spring)

 

[Gunny]

Since you've had the garden there for five years, I agree with Halftrack, you've probably got a hard pan and a good subsoiling will more than likely take care of your drainage problem. The good thing about it is that it can't hurt it and it's a lot faster and easier than ditching and moving enough soil to create a slope. If you can find a mole ball to drag through the soil with the subsoiler, you'd increase your drainage a whole lot.

 

[Eyecatcher]

OK -What's a mole ball?

 

[City Farmer]

OK -What's a mole ball?

Eyecatcher said it before me, whats a mole ball? If I do subsoil, how far apart are the passes?

 

[Fossil Farm]

From you're description, the garden is in the "flood plain" of the small ditch next to it. Same as a river system, just on a smaller scale. You will not be able to drain the groundwater out any lower than the water level in the ditch. If that is where you want the garden, raising the beds above the existing ground level looks like your best solution. Just depends on the drainage area the ditch drains if it will continue to be a problem in future wet years.

 

[Stick895]

mole ball Mole ball

 

[Ted Summey]

It looks to me that you need some way to get the water to run to the ditch. By using your turning plow you should be able to "back bed" or turn the soil in a direction to create enough fall in the garden so you get gentle run off. It may require creating a swale around your garden perimeter to create a path for the water. Running your rows perpendicular to the swale will allow water to run out of the garden. Planting your veggies on a hill/bed will also provide needed drainage especially if you do run your beds close to 90 degrees to the swale. The swale doesnt need to be deep and it would be a benefit if you can get grass to grow in it (aka sodded waterway). From the list of attachments in the OP, it looks like a bedder/hiller is the only additional item needed. You should be able to get a walk behind tiller between the rows if you use the 3000 to make them.

I don't think you need socked slotted pipe. That would be overkill and an unnecessary expense.

 

[City Farmer]

Fossil Farm, you might be on to something. Is it the water pressure from the creek holding the surface water up until the creek goes down? The garden never floods from the creek but it doesn't drain off after a heavy rain for a couple days either. I think I'm going to split the garden in two. The front high half I'll sub-soil and the creek half I'll mound and sub-soil. If the furrows drain well this season I'll go back to just planting on the ground. Here's another picture from today of what I'm dealing with.

 

[dave1949]

You could dig a hole with your backhoe, say at one end of the garden about in the middle of its width, and find out where your water table is. If the hole pretty much fills with water and stays at that level, all the subsoiling in the world isn't going to solve the problem of saturated, water-logged soil. Neither will drain pipes that are laying in saturated soil with no place to drain to.

If you have to garden in that spot, which I would say is unfortunate to begin with, then raising the garden is the thing to do. Either using hills, mounds, fill or whatever. One problem I see is that your garden is going to wash into the creek little by little and that will be accelerated by improving the slope for surface drainage. Your top soil fines and nutrients are going to go in/down the creek.

If the MI DEP/DNR will let you get away with it, or issue a permit for it, I would dig a pond that the ditch flows through and use the spoils to build a raised platform to garden on. You could save the topsoil to the side and put that on top of the platform when it's done. It's probably a good way to get in trouble, on the other hand, you are too close to the ditch to begin with for disturbing soils and if someone wanted to be picky, you will be in trouble for that too.

 

[City Farmer]

Yeah, I know its a bad place for a garden but I have no other place to put it. A buddy told me to subsoil and plant pumpkins for the kids and watch it for a season. The front 50' is always fine, its only the 30' closest to the ditch. The drain commission told me I could do whatever I wanted with the water in the creek but I couldn't change any of the elevation. How long of a chain do I need on the mole? I was walking down the isle here at work and somebody broke a parallel lift and threw it in the scrap hopper. I think its a great start for a mole. It has a 3/8" chain on a 3-1/2" dia. shaft. I cut a piece of 4"dia.x6", tapped a 3/4-10 hole in the back. I'll have it welded up tomorrow. I'd like to put more of a bullet on it but I'm not going to worry to much about it.

 

[dave1949]

Yeah, I know its a bad place for a garden but I have no other place to put it. A buddy told me to subsoil and plant pumpkins for the kids and watch it for a season. The front 50' is always fine, its only the 30' closest to the ditch. The drain commission told me I could do whatever I wanted with the water in the creek but I couldn't change any of the elevation. How long of a chain do I need on the mole? I was walking down the isle here at work and somebody broke a parallel lift and threw it in the scrap hopper. I think its a great start for a mole. It has a 3/8" chain on a 3-1/2" dia. shaft. I cut a piece of 4"dia.x6", tapped a 3/4-10 hole in the back. I'll have it welded up tomorrow. I'd like to put more of a bullet on it but I'm not going to worry to much about it.

Oh well, that's a shame really. I could see a nice duck pond and winter ice skating there. As it is, you will adding to the nutrient load (phosphorus and nitrogen) in the water and adding silt build-up to the ditch. I know the regulations are well-intended, but they sometimes rule out the best land-use solutions it seems. Here, you would probably have to maintain an undisturbed vegetative buffer within 50' of the creek.