Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod???

   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod??? #51  
Hey Doug,
Does Bradco make their own cylinders? Or do they buy them from a source and install them on their equipment. I'm thinking they buy them...and the parts too.
 
   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod???
  • Thread Starter
#52  
3RRL said:
Hey Doug, Does Bradco make their own cylinders? Or do they buy them from a source and install them on their equipment. I'm thinking they buy them...and the parts too.
My sense is that the basic cylinder components are purchased from a third party and then modified by Bradco's fabricator/assembler to meet Bradco's design specifications. There are no external markings I could find indicating who that original cylinder component supplier may be.

Dougster
 
   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod??? #53  
Bradco may very well do that, but I know for sure most cylinder manufactures will build right to their specs, even leaving off their own name if so requested. I guess all I was trying to say was the suggestions you got about getting a reputable aftermarket rod or even cylinder is not a bad idea if it saves $$$. I'm not trying to steer you away from what you want to do though. Just putting it out there that it is indeed a real good option.
 
   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod???
  • Thread Starter
#54  
3RRL said:
Bradco may very well do that, but I know for sure most cylinder manufactures will build right to their specs, even leaving off their own name if so requested. I guess all I was trying to say was the suggestions you got about getting a reputable aftermarket rod or even cylinder is not a bad idea if it saves $$$. I'm not trying to steer you away from what you want to do though. Just putting it out there that it is indeed a real good option.
Well, it's all a moot point now. The price was reconfirmed this morning and the order was placed. I feel good about it. Ya make a really stupid mistake... i.e., damaging that bucket cylinder rod... and ya just want the problem to go away before things get any worse. No more worrying now about the silly local machine shops and that cylinder repair guy of "mixed" reputation. Now I know it will be done right and it will be as good as the day I bought it in a week or so. That is worth something intangible but very real to me. :)

I honestly do understand what all you guys are saying about figuring out the original supplier. I've been there and done that before... for example, on the Westerbeke marine engine in my old sailboat. Sometimes you could save an absolute bundle... and sometimes you'd end up with big headaches even though there was more money left in your wallet. The fact is that I've tried to figure out the original supplier of various parts on my tractor with the intent of doing some interesting upgrades. Sometimes it's entirely possible. Sometimes it's not. But given the popularity of Bradco and also the popularity of TBN, if nobody has come forth so far with info on who that mysterious cylinder supplier might be, I don't think I'd be able to figure it out alone from the equipment and literature I'm looking at. :rolleyes:

Dougster
 
   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod??? #55  
If it's a gouge with raised edges.. i'd file it smooth. and maybee touch with some 2000 or 4000 sand paper.. I'd be tempted to braze or silver solder it up, then contour back down. i've seen pistons with yellow patches on them run 20 years.

Forget jb weld.. that's only good for contaminating your expensive hydraulic system.

Soundguy

Dougster said:
Yes folks, MY BAD!!! :(

I managed to scratch up the bucket cylinder rod on my Bradco 509 backhoe recently while digging under a large rock which I was trying to deep bury. So far, no leaks... and I will replace the rod this winter for sure... but for now, is there any practical way to "dress up" the wound so as to preserve the seals as much and as long as possible? :confused: Or will any sort of sanding/polishing/etc. of the cylinder rod just make matters worse? :confused:

And if I can't do anything, can the pros do anything? Or would I just be wasting money. :confused:

Dougster
 
   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod???
  • Thread Starter
#56  
Soundguy said:
If it's a gouge with raised edges.. i'd file it smooth. and maybee touch with some 2000 or 4000 sand paper.. I'd be tempted to braze or silver solder it up, then contour back down. i've seen pistons with yellow patches on them run 20 years. Forget jb weld.. that's only good for contaminating your expensive hydraulic system.
Soundguy
Hey, you're late to the party again! :D The new rod is already ordered, paid-for and on its way! :cool:

Just ribbing you, of course! ;) As always, all serious input is greatly appreciated!

Dougster
 
   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod??? #57  
If you go to your mfg website and then to their parent company website and look under "sourcing", it's possible your cylinder could have come from anywhere in the world.

The idea of buying rod and having it welded had never come to me before, but makes perfect sense to me.

One of the things nobody has mentioned is how much a mess it is to take a cylinder apart. I don't find it difficult, but it is an oily, messy job, and you've got to put it back together clean.
 
   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod???
  • Thread Starter
#58  
2manyrocks said:
One of the things nobody has mentioned is how much a mess it is to take a cylinder apart. I don't find it difficult, but it is an oily, messy job, and you've got to put it back together clean.
Oh, I'm sure it's gonna be a mess. That doesn't bother me at all. Only thing I haven't figured out yet is how to re-torque the 2" rod's hex nut to the proper torque specification (read: very high!!!). I'm sure I can get it off with my 3/4", 1,000 ft-lb air wrench... but I'm less sure how I can torque it back up to spec with any real accuracy.

Dougster
 
   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod??? #59  
Dougster said:
As much as aftermarket cylinder replacement with mods could make economic sense here, I am not going to do it. Not this time and for this repair. I want the original Bradco cylinder properly repaired and I am prepared to pay whatever it ends up taking to have that done. I do not want a new aftermarket cylinder installed regardless of any potential savings.

There are plenty of other instances I can imagine wherein I would happily consider this approach provided I had access to the right people and right parts at the right price... but not this time.

Dougster


I am often conflicted reading your posts. You say you are down to eating generic PB on stale bread, yet are not willing to use a replacement part. You also could have gone for YEARS with the rod in the cosmetically impared state. A dab of rust converter on the bare iron would keep it from rusting. Someone on the financial hooks would. By the way, many replacement parts are as good or often better than the original. Remember, the original was bought from the low bid supplier -> not the high quality supplier.


You're a Mechanical Engineer, right ?

Buy a wrench or socket / breaker bar of the correct size, add a pipe over the handle so that the distance from nut center to end is equal in feet to the torque value in hundreds of pounds. ie. 4.5 ft for 450 ft-lbs. Then you chain a scale to the pipe at 4.5 ft and you pull it down with 100# of force orthoganal to the pipe in the "righty-tighty" direction. If you are 1/2 starved and don't have the arm beef, make a loop and step on it. Assuming you weigh more than 100#. If you can't fixture it solidly, remount the rod only on the hoe and do it there. You will need loctite 272 on the nut.


jb
 
   / Dressing Up A Scratched Cylinder Rod???
  • Thread Starter
#60  
john_bud said:
I am often conflicted reading your posts. You say you are down to eating generic PB on stale bread, yet are not willing to use a replacement part. You also could have gone for YEARS with the rod in the cosmetically impared state. A dab of rust converter on the bare iron would keep it from rusting. Someone on the financial hooks would. By the way, many replacement parts are as good or often better than the original. Remember, the original was bought from the low bid supplier -> not the high quality supplier.
Okay. Let's address one recommended "alternative" solution at a time (i.e., to simply buying the replacement rod from Bradco for $219.00):

1) Do essentially nothing - Not acceptable to me because I don't want the rod to further deteriorate and seals to eventually let go on a client's jobsite or at any other point in time when it could be inconvenient to address it. Being a one machine business, it is important for me to address issues quickly and with repairs that will last. Backup rental machine cost is $250 to $300 per day... and my clients are not impressed at all by equipment failures.

2) Buy a complete new aftermarket cylinder and swap cylinder ends from old cylinder to new cylinder - Not acceptable to me on this repair. Folks forget how much labor costs are up here in New England and how few people up here will even take on this kind of work. They also forget that the Bradco cylinders have some unique design features that would be costly to duplicate or work around. Among other extra costs for this option, I would likely have to run new longer lines to the cylinder connection points (Bradco uses welded hard lines to place hose connection points exactly where they want them). That one cost alone (new hoses) would be more than the cost of the Bradco replacement rod... and I end up with one oddball aftermarket cylinder (real good for trade/resale value, right???). And, so far, no one has actually come up with an aftermarket cylinder that is a reasonable match to the existing cylinder. Not even close. I conservatively figure this option "soup to nuts" up in this area at between $550 and $800. Why would I want a new mismatched cylinder for 2-1/2 to 4 times the cost of the Bradco replacement rod?

3) Have a local shop take my damaged rod and rebuild it using a new hard-chromed rod - This was actually an acceptable approach to me... but the cost would be about double the cost of simply buying a new rod from Bradco. Why would I want to pay double?

john_bud said:
You're a Mechanical Engineer, right ? Buy a wrench or socket / breaker bar of the correct size, add a pipe over the handle so that the distance from nut center to end is equal in feet to the torque value in hundreds of pounds. ie. 4.5 ft for 450 ft-lbs. Then you chain a scale to the pipe at 4.5 ft and you pull it down with 100# of force orthoganal to the pipe in the "righty-tighty" direction. If you are 1/2 starved and don't have the arm beef, make a loop and step on it. Assuming you weigh more than 100#. If you can't fixture it solidly, remount the rod only on the hoe and do it there. You will need loctite 272 on the nut.
jb
Oh, I understand the basics quite well. But thanks for the review.

The main problem is the awkwardness of dealing with the long hard-chromed rod (without damaging it) and the fact that I currently have no mounted vise of sufficient strength (and mounting strength) to take a torque of 785 ft-pounds (+/-) in any plane. I'm sure I'll figure something out, but right now I'm lacking in that capability.

And yes, despite my generic peanut butter-based diet, I am WELL over 100 pounds! :) But at the same time, let's please not forget that I am handicapped since birth with a semi-useless left arm. What you guys do every day without a second thought can be a project requiring major planning and special tools for me... and even then, a day or three of swelling and intense pain if I mess up.

Dougster
 

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