Drill Press electrical question...

[StevenPaul]

Hello Y'all!

Don't know if this goes in this forum, but I'll be using this rig to "build it yourself" on some other projects. My wife bought and 3 teenagers got(lifted) this drill press from a yard sale for $75. It's a beast! It can run on 440. I don't know what voltage the previous owners had it on. I eventually want to run it at 220/230 in my shop that we will be building later but for now, I need it as 110/120. Can someone help me on how to wire this thing? It's got some schmatics in the cover but I can't make heads or tales of them. I know some about basic house wiring (I just finished wiring my "temp" shop) but this thing is confusing. It says something about taking a wire from L2 to L3 if going single phase. Check the pictures out and if ya can help, awesome! if not, where can I go to get some help?

thanks in advance!
Steve

 

[DieselPower]

Anytime you wire a motor that can be run on single or multi-phase current you will have to hook some wires together. I can't really make out the data plate in the picture but from what you describe all you should have to do is put leg's L2 and L3 together for single phase operation.

Does it specifically list 110/120 on the data plate? If not then it can not be run on it.

Some clear pictures of the data plate would help. Try to support the camera on a tripod or something solid so it doesn't blur and instead of using the camera's built in flash use a stationary light source. Then take the picture from a angle that you don't see any reflections when you view your cameras view screen.

Is that a Wilton drill press? It kind of looks like a Wilton I currently have in my shop that I'm installing new spindle bushings in for a friend.

 

[Egon]

You best be getting an electrician to check it out. It may be 3 phase.

 

[StevenPaul]

Thanks Diesel,

and I will try and get a better picture, but it says on the housing Buffalo Forge I think, I'll have to double check again. I know its Buffalo something. And as for the 110, I think it has the wiring schmatic for a single phase 2 or 3 wire. Does this sound right? Once again, I'll check again, but I thought that with a single phase 2 or 3 wire was ok for 110/120.

Steve

 

[3RRL]

Changing from 3Ø to single phase means instead of 4 wires ... (3 hot wires and one neutral/ground) you have 3 wires ... (2 hot wires and 1 neutral or ground). You need to connect those two wires (L2 & L3) to switch. However, that means it still needs to run on 220v single phase. I'm not sure, but I don't think you can get that 220v 3Ø motor to run on 110v though. It would lose too much power to run the drill press effectively IMO.

 

[StevenPaul]

Ok, this is what "it" says, for single phase 2 wire,

L1 to L1, L2 to L3 then on the lower part it says T1 to T1, T3 to T2. I've drawn some green arrows in the pictures.

Am I understading you right 3RRL that its still 220 with this configuration? I mean it does make sense what you say about not being able to power the beast with the 110. Also with two black wires and one red, how would you hook up the plug going into the outlet, I don't see any ground wire. I'm obviously not going to hard wire it....yet. I've got a 220v 3 wire outlet for my welder and it has a ground/neutral wire. So what would be the ground for this drill press with the 2 black and 1 red wire?

Also in the cover with the schmatics, it does have some replacement parts that list a 120 system, but I think I'd have to replace magnet coils, contacts, and whatever else, which ain't gonna happen. Going 220 is much easier.

I meant to ask too, is $75 a good deal on these older drill presses?

thanks again,
Steve

 

[sandman2234]

I may be wrong, but let me toss something in.
The pictures you are taking are of a switch, not the motor plate. You should have a plate on the motor that tells you the voltage and phase of the motor and what it will run on.
If it will run on 440, I would be willing to bet it is 440/3phase. It might also be a multi voltage motor, being 208/220/440 which is pretty common, and will run on any of those voltages, but still needs to be 3phase.
I haven't seen it all, but I haven't seen a 120/208/240/277/440 although they may make them. I have seen lights that had that multiple voltages, but that isn't a motor. There are usually 9 wires inside a dual voltage motor that need to be hooked up to the 3 incoming wires in the right order to change voltage. Good thing is, they have pretty much standardized that configuration, so it is easy to figure out.
Anyway, If it is 3phase and has 220 available on it, all is not lost. A static convertor can be had for about the same price as you paid for the drill press, or a little less and it will allow you to run it. I run my Bridgeport off one, simply because that was what came with it. Rotary converters are better, but more expensive.
David from jax

 

[Farwell]

Sandman,
I agree that the motor data plate is what needs to be looked at instead of the switch data plate.

 

[J_J]

StevenPaul,

Although some good advice has been given, consider this. Sometimes it is better to start fresh and new. By that, I mean take that motor off and install a new 1 or 2 hp 220v motor, which you can do your self. The old motor might be bad, the electricians hourly rate has to be considered. Just match the shaft size to take advantage of the multiple speed pulleys. Try Surplus Hydraulics. They carry electrical stuff also.

 

[3RRL]

Ok, this is what "it" says, for single phase 2 wire,

L1 to L1, L2 to L3 then on the lower part it says T1 to T1, T3 to T2. I've drawn some green arrows in the pictures.

Am I understading you right 3RRL that its still 220 with this configuration? I mean it does make sense what you say about not being able to power the beast with the 110. Also with two black wires and one red, how would you hook up the plug going into the outlet, I don't see any ground wire. I'm obviously not going to hard wire it....yet. I've got a 220v 3 wire outlet for my welder and it has a ground/neutral wire. So what would be the ground for this drill press with the 2 black and 1 red wire?

Also in the cover with the schmatics, it does have some replacement parts that list a 120 system, but I think I'd have to replace magnet coils, contacts, and whatever else, which ain't gonna happen. Going 220 is much easier.

I meant to ask too, is $75 a good deal on these older drill presses?

thanks again,
Steve

Yes, I think it will still be 220v but it will run on single phase 220v now.
Bear with me now...

Normally the L's are input from the power source and the T's are output to your motor. So, L1 and L2 are the two hot lines input for single phase 220v. Find which are those line on that switch.
L3 is a hot line coming from a 3Ø electrical source, so that's why L2 & L3 are being put together (L3 is no longer a hot lead in).

Output for 3Ø is T1, T2 & T3. T1 and T2 come from input L1 & L2 and now that it's going to be single phase, you don't need out put T3 anymore. That's why T3 is being put with L2.

Anyway, the wires that are connected to L1 and L2 are the hot wires for your 220v single phase plug. The ground and neutral can be combined to go to the ground on your single phase plug. Then you can use a single phase 220v plug that way and try it.

Disclaimer:
I am not a licensed electrician and don't profess to be one. I am passing along knowledge that has helped me with my single and 3 phase electrical wiring for my personal shop.
Somebody else please confirm what I said is correct so Steven doesn't burn up his motor.

 

[BloomingtonMike]

Anyway, If it is 3phase and has 220 available on it, all is not lost. A static convertor can be had for about the same price as you paid for the drill press, or a little less and it will allow you to run it. I run my Bridgeport off one, simply because that was what came with it. Rotary converters are better, but more expensive.
David from jax

In the case of a 3 phase drill press I would use a variable frequency drive (VFD) (or AC Drive is another name for it). This would give you the ability to have infinate speeds available to you. Check out Home - FactoryMation for some good buys.

I am using an RPC on a 5hp DC system and a VFD on my 3hp DJ30 jointer.

 

[StevenPaul]

I think sandman has nailed it,
(If it will run on 440, I would be willing to bet it is 440/3phase. It might also be a multi voltage motor, being 208/220/440 which is pretty common, and will run on any of those voltages, but still needs to be 3phase.)

although I did hope for the simplicity of what 3RRL has said. I came across this website

Static Phase Converter Information Page - Phase-A-Matic, Inc.

I went out early this morning to look at the motor data plate and it is a 3 phase motor, pretty much everything that sandman said was on the data plate. So I guess I'll be investing in a static converter. But from what I read, it could be a good investment for other "3-phase motors" my wife finds down the road.

I think the moral of this story is that,

when the wife brings home an unfamilar used/new toy,
ummmmmm,
well, just let her keep on bringing them,
cuz' thats what TBN is for!
Wives who understand what a man wants; things we don't understand but want to play with, and another excuse to get on TBN and ask questions, of which so many of you are good at answering!

I'll be keepin y'all posted hopefully upon getting that static converter. I know I'm gonna need help on that too. I'm looking at this as my next step up to understanding the realms of the electrical world.

I also meant to add that along with the drill press for $75, a Model 200 Foley Saw Filer (circular saw blade sharpening contraption) came with it. Got the manual and everything. Don't know how useful it will be but it sure is a conversation piece when friends come over.

thanks for all the input!
y'all are the best around!
Steve

 

[sandman2234]

J_J has a good point, but more than the shaft size needs to be considered. Frame, hp, rpm, starting capacity, and who knows what else.
3rrl, if L2 and L3 are hooked together where are you sending the power that is coming in on L2 and getting sent right straight back down the wire L3?
Sounds like you just energized the nuetral bar to me, but I KNOW I AM NOT AN ELECTRICIAN. What you suggested may need a second look from what I see.
BloomingtonMike, I agree with you, but I was trying to keep from scaring him with the more pricey VFD. No doubt it would be a great investment, but it does have to be dedicated to that one machine, unlike a static box or a RFC which can run one or more machines depending on the size and arrangement.
Probably the most centralized bunch of people with knowledge about how to run drill presses on single phase power is on the PM board.

Welcome to the Manufacturing Forum: Transformers, Phase Converters and VFD

Some of those guys are really great and some aren't. Pick and choose what you read and apply it after it has been explained a minimum of a dozen times. After all, you are talking about the lives of your family and yourself when it comes down to messing with electricity.
There is another way to do it, and that is with an idler motor. It requires having another 3phase motor usually 1.5 times the hp rating of the one on your drill press. The idler motor just sits on the floor somewhere nearby and when you need to run the press you have to either ropestart it or go into hooking up capacitors to jump start it. For simplicity, a rope is easier no more than a drill press is used. Once you jumpstart the idler motor, your drill press can be started and stopped at will. I worked at a very large manufacturing facility and one of the electricians flat said you couldn't run 3phase off of single phase. I drew him a quick diagram and he said no way, no way, no way. I told him to put his money where his mouth was, (he had no money anyway) but he did walk over to the shop and set up two motors as I suggested. He called me over and said "watch this". I verified the proper wiring and he hit the switch. All it did was hum, but I reached over and spun the motor by hand. Once that motor was online, the other could be started and stopped at will, dispite what his voltmeter read.
David from jax

 

[3RRL]

David,
3rrl, if L2 and L3 are hooked together where are you sending the power that is coming in on L2 and getting sent right straight back down the wire L3?
Sounds like you just energized the nuetral bar to me, but I KNOW I AM NOT AN ELECTRICIAN. What you suggested may need a second look from what I see.

What L3 wire? When using 220v single phase, there is no L3 wire is there. L3 wire only comes from a 3Ø power supply. Single phase 220 only has 2 hot leads, L1 and L2.

Here is what Steven said to use single phase 220v:
Ok, this is what "it" says, for single phase 2 wire,

L1 to L1, L2 to L3 then on the lower part it says T1 to T1, T3 to T2.

Not to be argumentative, but to me, that means it can run on 220v single phase when wiring the switch that way.

 

[tommu56]

to Stecepaul, Rob and all

I can't see all the wiring on the starter, but one reason you run one leg through 2 starter contacts L1 to t1 to motor L2 to t2 to L3 to t3 to motor is to get the correct heat balance in the overload (item on bottom of starter) when using a 3 phase starter on single phase.

Is there a name plate on motor and wiring diagram. that is the key to how to wire the starter

One basic thing I learn't in school
fuses protect wires
overloads protect the motor
If they are properly sized for application.


tom

 

[sandman2234]

3RRL,
I think I got that from the picture where he drew the green lines around the L2 and L3 inputs. I am would be happy to say I am mistaken, since someone suggesting that might make for a problem, depending on where those wires originate. I just saw that and didnt want it to be a problem.
Like I said, I am no electrician, not even close.
When it comes to arguing, if your right, let me know and pound it into my head until I understand it. If you don't, or somebody else doesn't, then somebody might get hurt by misinterpeting something that is posted here.
My feelings (not easily hurt) will get over it, I don't hold grudges and will argue till the cows come home over something I believe. Hopefully we all are willing to stand up for what we know, or think we know until we are proven wrong. At that point, hopefully we can admit our mistakes.
Realistically, we really needed more information to confirm our suspections
about just what he has, versus what we think he has.
David from jax
StevenPaul
I don't think anyone addressed your question concerning the value of the $75 drill press. I don't think you gave us a make or model number, size, floor or benchtop model, etc. Depending on the condition of it, I don't think you could go wrong considering it looks like one of the old commercial ones. There are a bunch of them around but any of them should be worth that. The fact that you got the blade shaperner with it makes it a good deal better. I know of a guy looking for one should you decide to let the filer go.
David from jax

 

[dqdave1]

3 phase motor will NOT work on single phase.

 

[sandman2234]

dqdave1
I would hate to tell that to the hundreds, no make that thousands of people on the 'net that already are actually running 3phase motors on single phase power. I am no expert on it but I do have a couple of milling machines in my garage that are doing just that. It is possible and 3 different ways have been listed in this post alone.
Trust me on this, it really is possible.
David from jax

 

[dullpain]

dqdave1 - I have a 3 phase drill press , and a 3 phase Bandsaw , and a 3 phase HUGE squirrel cage fan in my shop , all are run from single phase power with the aid of home made converter. Will attach info as to how this may be done.

 

[schmism]

as noted in the diagrams.

440v will NOT work on 110/220v household current.

you will need a transformer (as shown) and a phase converter to make it work.

if you run a 3 phase motor on single phase you WILL burn it up.