Driving tractor 20 miles on road

[Rara Avis]

We can all cite horror stories and/or cases of heroism and so forth in support of or attacking one side or the other but I have seen no justification for a semi to intentionally tailgate for the purpose of intimidating the car ahead.

Is is not smart, safe, legal, or defensible. The rate of pay of a trucker be it good bad or indifferent is not a valid justification for intimidating tailgating.

We could make a list of infinite length about how it would be nice if... It would be nice if all cars always got out of the way of trucks, it would be nice if trucks had special lanes where the trucks had an unlimited speed limit, it would be nice if LOTS OF THINGS but the reality is we share the roads and many of the laws and intentionally violating the law to try to bully others through an unsafe and illegal action is pretty hard to justify. It is a rude, crude, illegal, and unsafe practice.

Pat

And exactly how many times has this happened to you, relative to all of the times you are on the road???

 

[D7E]

Heres a differemt twist....my wife (25) and my mother (57) both have class ones and drive our trucks are these "Aggressive drivers"........Have you ever looked who is driving ,I see more female truckers than ever these days and i have no problem with it....Should we start a sexist thing ,It would make as much sense ?

 

[gemini5362]

And exactly how many times has this happened to you, relative to all of the times you are on the road???

I pretty much see drivers tailgating cars until they move out of their way at least every other day on my 50 mile round trip to work.

 

[patrick_g]

So it's clear that bad drivers exist in all walks of life ,Yet the emphasis is on all truckers being mindless morons ,There may be a few ,Don't tar them all with the same brush ?

My emphasis was never on all or even most truckers being mindless morons and defy anyone to show me a post where I made that claim or anything close. I have basically repeated one theme, that tailgating cars to intimidate them so they will get out of the bullying truckers way is illegal, unsafe, bad manners, and unfortunately all too successful most of the time since success gives rise to repetition.

If it works and "EVERYBODY" else is doing it I'm sure it attracts others to try it at least just a little, that is an obvious trait of human nature. If every trucker on the planet did it, it still wouldn't be smart, safe, legal, or courteous.

If people did to me in person what truckers do to cars with their trucks on a routine basis I'd add several notches to the hand grips of my .45 Glock because if someone were to assault me on the street with a deadly weapon in person I'd surely give him a couple rounds in his center of mass in self defense. I don't think truckers who drive aggressively to intimidate car drivers though assault with there BIG TRUCK are better than anyone assaulting you on the street in person, just better armored and are used to getting away with it (positive feedback) so the reprehensible behavior is repeated.

I'm sure the folks that have been doing it for a long time don't give it a second thought, it is just routine for them to assault car drivers responsible for families with kids or whatever. Just because it is routine and apparently accepted and tolerated behavior among trucking circles doesn't make it legal, moral, safe, or polite.

NO, I never said all or even most truckers are mindless morons. I have had friends and neighbors who are or have been truckers. I don't see truckers as second class citizens. The country depends on their services in a big way and they make a tremendous contribution to our economy. This does not excuse this particular behavior.

Noting prevents truckers from banding together for collective bargaining (see also Teamsters) or for collective political action. If truckers have a LEGITIMATE need for some sort of law enabling them to legally run cars out of their way through intimidation let them circulate a petition and lobby their representatives and senators for redress. The "SPIN" required to "sell" that legislation will make interesting reading!

Pat

 

[gemini5362]

What I think is bothering me about the truck driving portion of this thread is the walk a mile in a truck drivers shoes type posts. I have never driven a big truck. I dont want to. I have been a victom I dont want to do that again either. I am not going to say all truck drivers are bad drivers or that they taligate. I drove to work tonight and saw a lot of trucks none of them were tailgating. Let me give a realistic scenario. I am on my way home tonight. Someone on the interstate in the left hand lane falls asleep at the wheel. When the interstate curves they keep on coming right into oncoming traffic. I am in my geo tracker in the left hand lane of oncoming traffic. I come around the curve at 65 ( the speed limit) I see a car coming through the medium right in front of me. I slam on the brakes of my tracker. One of the bad semi drivers is behind me about 15 feet or less from my rear bumper. I may be wrong but I dont believe he can stop from 65mph in the same distance I can or even withing 30 feet of the distance I can stop.
Lets assume I am right and he stops exactly 30 feet farther than it takes me to stop. That would put his bumper right about even with where my bumper was before the impact knocked me out of the way. In this scenario I am probably a dead person at this point. There is absolutely nothing that has been done to anyone driving a truck to allow them to gamble with my life. I dont care how hard it is to drive a semi. I dont care what the hazards are. I dont even care if they have had geo trackers cut them off every day they have driven. There is nothing that gives them the right to gamble that they can tailgate and still the truck stopped before they kill me.

As far as the sexist comment. I have noticed an increase in the number of women in non commercial vehicles that tailgate. I dont see enough women driving big rigs to see if that carries over into that type of driving also.

 

[the_sandman_454]

I dont care what the hazards are. I dont even care if they have had geo trackers cut them off every day they have driven.

That depends. Was the semi keeping a safe following distance between him and the next vehicle, and you just cut in front of him, thereby diminishing his following distance? If that's the case, then you are the one who put yourself at risk by invading his safe following distance he had already established.

I have this happen when pulling my boat or other trailers in my pickup. Idiots are so impatient that they cut into my safe following distance. I generally try to back off to give them a bit of room, but it's not always the best solution. I think the idiot that cuts in front of something with as much momentum as a pickup/trailer combo or bigger is the bigger problem, since that individual was driving safely prior to the idiot cutting in front.

Now if the towing vehicle just happens to run up right behind you for no apparent reason, then that individual is the one who is causing the issue. In my experience it's usually the other way around though, the smaller vehicle usually has no respect for how long it takes to stop/slow a heavy vehicle, invades the safe following distance the driver had established, and then wonders why the other vehicle plows into them when they suddenly decide to slam on the brakes in a panic stop to get to their exit, turn on the next road, etc.

Often times I do get frustrated at idiots hanging out in the left hand lane travelling the same speed as those in the right hand lane. It is tempting to want to try and motivate such people out of the way. That is a law I would love to see enforced, the "keep right except to pass" thing. I don't care if you're doing the speed limit or not, you're creating an unsafe situation because other drivers will likely tailgate you and so forth. Not that it's right, but right or wrong it's what invariably will happen. Why not just get out of peoples' way when the opportunity presents itself (this comment applying mostly to situations in which passing lanes are available).

As to the tractor on the road thing, it's sort of fun. I drove mine a few miles to do a little bush hog work for a friend, and even though it's mostly dirt roads on which I travelled, it was an interesting experience. I'd do it again, since it probably won't hurt anything. Let the cars do their own thing, and just to be courteous if you find someplace you can pull over if they can't safely pass when it starts to get congested behind you.

 

[Rara Avis]

I pretty much see drivers tailgating cars until they move out of their way at least every other day on my 50 mile round trip to work.

Hmmm, then I'd start calling my state police and file some complaints...

Mount a video camera pointing backward...heck they record for hours, so turn it on when you leave home/work and turn it off when get to work/home...anyone tailgating you will have had their license plate in view at some point...It is great evidence in court...

 

[Kendrick]

< Whistle --------- > Time out ppl. The world is full of all kinds this arguement about tailgating has gotten political with no need. I could go in to a rant of many types on both sides of the fence. it is not worth it. the average american driver SUCKS. cdl or no there will always be morons.

The suggestion of giving them plenty of room on the right is an interesting one. Vermont has about 3" of gravle for a side so it doesnt work well here. texas is another story.

 

[wolc123]

When someone tailgates me I drop my speed down to the speed limit (I usually run 10 or so over). It does not matter to me if they are driving an 18 wheeler or a motorcycle. Tailgating not a good idea because if an accident results, the one with the front-end damage (tailgater) will always pay for the damages. Most truck drivers are smart enough not to tailgate because it could cost them thier job, the exceptions that do usually have very short careers in the field.

 

[Rara Avis]

When someone tailgates me I drop my speed down to the speed limit (I usually run 10 or so over). It does not matter to me if they are driving an 18 wheeler or a motorcycle. Tailgating not a good idea because if an accident results, the one with the front-end damage (tailgater) will always pay for the damages. Most truck drivers are smart enough not to tailgate because it could cost them thier job, the exceptions that do usually have very short careers in the field.

You have hear of the expression..."He was dead right"...

Just because the guy plows into your rear...he's at fault...but will you survive the accident?

Me, I either accelerate to create distance between me and him or I pull over and let him pass...

 

[Soundguy]

Con.. tire ware and time spent.. some traffic/safety increased liability.

I drive my tractor 4 miles each way to my pasture every 6 weeks. I enjoy the ride..

have the proper lamps and plaques and go for it. ( take a cell phone with ya if you have one. )

soundguy

Well I want to move my Kubota L39 from one property to my other. There is about 20 miles between them. I've been quoted $125-$200 to move it each way and would be at the mercy of the timing of the truckers.

I'm thinking I'll just drive the 20 miles. The tractor supposedly does 11 MPH at top end so I figure 2-3 hours should get me there. I live in rural Vermont and will be taking mostly back roads.

Any pros or cons to doing this? Any particular suggestions? To my knowledge farm vehicles can travel on public roads as long as have the slow vehicle sign on back and the flashers going.

 

[catvet]

Soundguy,

Thanks for getting the thread back on subject. Feel like the anti/pro truckers did some hijacking.

 

[patrick_g]

And exactly how many times has this happened to you, relative to all of the times you are on the road???

Well, lets see... I checked and don't seem to be able to find my tally sheet and I didn't put it in my diary so I guess we'll just have to take my guess from memory. On the interstate, either I-40 or I-35 I see multiple examples per hour but as I typically drive the speed limit (70) in the slow lane I don't get "the treatment" personally more than about once an hour, sometimes more sometimes less (within 60 miles of OKC.) Driving on US 177 I may go for a week without it happening or I may experience it twice in 20 miles.

The worst offenders local to me are gravel truck drivers out of Davis, Oklahoma (and similar.) The faster they can get to their destination and get back to the gravel pit the sooner they get another load. They think the highway exists for their use and cars are a pain in the butt to marginally tolerate it you can't intimidate. I have seen them blow through 4-way stops at 20+ and hit 60+ in a 40 zone inside the city limits of a small town with only one cop on duty. They try to keep him located and pass the "intel" via CB radio. If the cop stops a car over a hill from the 4-way he can't see trucks running the stop or speeding through the "commercial district" (two gas/convenience stores, trailer factory, tire shop, etc)

These gravel trucks (full sized 18 wheelers) are the most frequent violator of my rights because of where I drive the most miles. Honest to goodness long haul truckers for the most part don't frequent the roads where I drive, with the exception of the interstates around OKC where the practice is rampant.

How many egregious violations of the law, common sense, and general safety have to occur or how frequently before it is wrong. Is killing OK so long as it isn't a serial killer?

If this were a rare event, infrequently observed or rarely experienced I would have prefaced my comments with something like, I recall this one time when ... or way back in XXXX one time YYYY happened. This is a frequently observed and unfortunately frequently experienced action.

I say again, I'd pull my carry piece and put two in the center of mass of anyone doing to me in person what SOME truckers do while wearing their armored cloak of invincibility and there wouldn't be a trial due to the clear cut nature of the self defense act. I mention this not to brag or talk tough but to illustrate the serious nature of what some truckers are doing on a regular basis because they get away with it and it works, usually.

Until or unless someone can put together a logical cogent argument explaining in simple terms why this dangerous practice should be condoned by ANYONE who cares at all about the law or public safety, I think all the anecdotal claptrap about NEEDING to do this to make a living or to keep speed up to make the hill without inconveniencing other cars should be reigned in and give space to anyone who can make such a logical and reasonable argument in favor of the subject practice.

I suspect we will have a loooooooong wait to hear that argument.

I notice that many of the posts on this topic "load" the situation to favor one side or the other of the discussion. Here is a simple situation you can see on any given drive of an hour's duration on an interstate near or in OKC. How do you explain condoning truckers tailgating cars aggressively, running up on them quickly and making noise with their toys in an obvious assault intended to intimidate/frighten the car driver to get out of the way WHEN THE CAR IS IN THE SLOW LANE DOING THE SPEED LIMIT OR MORE????

Pat

 

[shvl73]

Glasd to see you had a safe trip. The back roads are nice to drive but, Rt 15 is kinda fast. I drive through there quite a bit, beautiful area.

 

[Rara Avis]

I say again, I'd pull my carry piece and put two in the center of mass of anyone doing to me in person what SOME truckers do while wearing their armored cloak of invincibility and there wouldn't be a trial due to the clear cut nature of the self defense act. I mention this not to brag or talk tough but to illustrate the serious nature of what some truckers are doing on a regular basis because they get away with it and it works, usually.


Pat

Well as a Benefactor Member of the NRA, I'd say that would not be the best practice...because then the Trucker could run OVER you and say that he was doing it in self-defense...

Not to mention the massive legal fees you would incur defending yourself in court for a firearm discharge not on your property...plus the fact that these forum statements could be dredged up during discovery and used against you as some form of premeditated action...

Better use would be to mount a video camera pointing backward...heck they record for hours, so turn it on when you leave home/work and turn it off when get to work/home...anyone tailgating you will have had their license plate in view at some point...It is great evidence in court...

 

[gemini5362]

That depends. Was the semi keeping a safe following distance between him and the next vehicle, and you just cut in front of him, thereby diminishing his following distance? If that's the case, then you are the one who put yourself at risk by invading his safe following distance he had already established.

I have this happen when pulling my boat or other trailers in my pickup. Idiots are so impatient that they cut into my safe following distance. I generally try to back off to give them a bit of room, but it's not always the best solution. I think the idiot that cuts in front of something with as much momentum as a pickup/trailer combo or bigger is the bigger problem, since that individual was driving safely prior to the idiot cutting in front.

Now if the towing vehicle just happens to run up right behind you for no apparent reason, then that individual is the one who is causing the issue. In my experience it's usually the other way around though, the smaller vehicle usually has no respect for how long it takes to stop/slow a heavy vehicle, invades the safe following distance the driver had established, and then wonders why the other vehicle plows into them when they suddenly decide to slam on the brakes in a panic stop to get to their exit, turn on the next road, etc.

Often times I do get frustrated at idiots hanging out in the left hand lane travelling the same speed as those in the right hand lane. It is tempting to want to try and motivate such people out of the way. That is a law I would love to see enforced, the "keep right except to pass" thing. I don't care if you're doing the speed limit or not, you're creating an unsafe situation because other drivers will likely tailgate you and so forth. Not that it's right, but right or wrong it's what invariably will happen. Why not just get out of peoples' way when the opportunity presents itself (this comment applying mostly to situations in which passing lanes are available).

As to the tractor on the road thing, it's sort of fun. I drove mine a few miles to do a little bush hog work for a friend, and even though it's mostly dirt roads on which I travelled, it was an interesting experience. I'd do it again, since it probably won't hurt anything. Let the cars do their own thing, and just to be courteous if you find someplace you can pull over if they can't safely pass when it starts to get congested behind you.

I totally agree with you on one point. People that cut into a drivers safe following distance are idiots. I was not refering to that scenario. I was referring to drivers that follow too close because the vehicle in front of them is not getting out of their way.

NOT all states have the stay on the right unless passing. I dont believe arkansas does. If I am driving the speed limit and there are cars in the right hand lane that are going a few miles per hour below. I will stay in the left lane until I get by them. The drivers that run up on my bumper so that I will move over and get caught in slower traffic do not usally find me a willing participant in that maneuver.

 

[gemini5362]

Hmmm, then I'd start calling my state police and file some complaints...

Mount a video camera pointing backward...heck they record for hours, so turn it on when you leave home/work and turn it off when get to work/home...anyone tailgating you will have had their license plate in view at some point...It is great evidence in court...

Paul I say this with a lot of respect. You are joking correct about calling the police ? I call when I see someone that looks like they are intoxicated and weaving. The police will respond to that. I will tell you a true story. In an earlier post I mentioned about a semi that hit me and totalled my car. He did not have any insurance at all. About a month after he hit me I saw him driving his truck headed into a town near me. I knew he did not have insurance because I was in the process of sueing him over the wreck. In arkansas if you do not have insurance and have a wreck your license is suspended and you do not get it back until you have posted a bond equal to the amount of money needed to cover the accident. I called the police and told them that he was coming into town with a loaded semi trailer. I gave them his drivers license number and told them that his license was suspended and he would be in their town on such and such road in ten minutes. I was told that because they did not have a reason to stop him they could not do anything about it.

Good Idea about the camera. Not all states have front mounted license plates. Arkansas for one doesnt.

 

[gemini5362]

Soundguy,

Thanks for getting the thread back on subject. Feel like the anti/pro truckers did some hijacking.

Catvet you are 100 per cent correct. I am sorry for hijacking your post. I will shut up on the subject of tailgating in this post at least.

 

[patrick_g]

Well as a Benefactor Member of the NRA, I'd say that would not be the best practice...because then the Trucker could run OVER you and say that he was doing it in self-defense...

Paul, You are misconstruing my comments. I never said anything about shooting the truck! I never said anything about shooting the driver while he was in the truck.

What I said was if the driver did to me in person (meaning not in his armored truck suit) what he did in his truck (assault me with a deadly weapon) I'd shoot him.

If a person on the street assaults you with a deadly weapon and in fear for your life you pull your carry piece and shoot him, I doubt the consequences will be as you describe.

My purpose for mentioning pulling a concealed carry and shooting an attacker on the street was to illustrate the serious nature of what truckers are engaging in. To assault someone with a truck is as morally reprehensible and illegal as assaulting them on the street (or sidewalk or in the park) with a deadly weapon, say to get ahead of them in a line to buy a ticket or to get to the checkout at Wally World or to cut in line at the water fountain.

My understanding of concealed carry is that the purpose is to be able to defend yourself and innocent persons around you from potentially deadly attack. Doing just that, at least in Oklahoma, is not fraught with quite the degree of danger to the gun owner you indicate. My concealed weapon permit is not restricted to my property but includes everywhere not expressly prohibited by law in this state and in several others with which Oklahoma has reciprocal agreements.

Further, I am not premeditating shooting a truck at all. If I did, which I'm not, it would not be with a short barreled .45 ACP.

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I would choose a heavier caliber, say my Super Blackhawk, if I wanted to shoot trucks, which I won't be doing.

Again, I apologize for my poor descriptive powers if I failed to make it clear that my example was comparing the actions of a street thug to an overly aggressive trucker when both are assaulting you with a deadly weapon. In the case of the street thug, I believe the appropriate response to his potentially deadly attack is to shoot him if you have no other safe alternatives. How is the aggressive trucker with his BIG TRUCK less of a threat?

Pat

 

[Rara Avis]

Paul, You are misconstruing my comments. I never said anything about shooting the truck! I never said anything about shooting the driver while he was in the truck.

What I said was if the driver did to me in person (meaning not in his armored truck suit) what he did in his truck (assault me with a deadly weapon) I'd shoot him.

If a person on the street assaults you with a deadly weapon and in fear for your life you pull your carry piece and shoot him, I doubt the consequences will be as you describe.

My purpose for mentioning pulling a concealed carry and shooting an attacker on the street was to illustrate the serious nature of what truckers are engaging in. To assault someone with a truck is as morally reprehensible and illegal as assaulting them on the street (or sidewalk or in the park) with a deadly weapon, say to get ahead of them in a line to buy a ticket or to get to the checkout at Wally World or to cut in line at the water fountain.

My understanding of concealed carry is that the purpose is to be able to defend yourself and innocent persons around you from potentially deadly attack. Doing just that, at least in Oklahoma, is not fraught with quite the degree of danger to the gun owner you indicate. My concealed weapon permit is not restricted to my property but includes everywhere not expressly prohibited by law in this state and in several others with which Oklahoma has reciprocal agreements.

Further, I am not premeditating shooting a truck at all. If I did, which I'm not, it would not be with a short barreled .45 ACP.

I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I would choose a heavier caliber, say my Super Blackhawk, if I wanted to shoot trucks, which I won't be doing.

Again, I apologize for my poor descriptive powers if I failed to make it clear that my example was comparing the actions of a street thug to an overly aggressive trucker when both are assaulting you with a deadly weapon. In the case of the street thug, I believe the appropriate response to his potentially deadly attack is to shoot him if you have no other safe alternatives. How is the aggressive trucker with his BIG TRUCK less of a threat?

Pat

In terms of your street violence...I guess I use what my Grand Master taught me...

PHILOSOPHY
The philosophy of Hap Ki Do is based on three guiding principles: Yu, Won, and Hwa

YU: FLOWING WATER
The Hap Ki Do practitioner does not meet force with force but rather adapts to the flow of the attack in order to redirect it to the practitioner's advantage, much like water can adapt to multitude of surroundings. Hap Ki Do trains one to adapt to one's situation.

WON: CIRCLE
The techniques of Hap Ki Do are performed by utilizing the circular motion to minimize the effect of an attack while simultaneously positioning the practitioner to counterattack. Circular movement facilitates the flow of ki or energy thus efficiently directing energy and never wasting it.

HWA: HARMONY
To harmonize one's mind, body, and techniques through continuous practice and be able to blend that harmony through the opponents attack, one is able to achieve a devastating affect. Harmony is based on combining energy. In other words, Hap Ki Do techniques are based on blending or harmonizing with one's opponent versus meeting force against force.


Well unless he is the trucker from DUEL...
Duel (1971) (TV)
I'd pull over and let him pass

And in terms of this thread...I'd say we have gone far a field...maybe it needs to have a place all its own...