Dumb moves

TWINKLE_TOES · Oct 2, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

del,

When talking points start with "why so they can share alcohol and ******?" and "Boeing is still I see is one of the most bastardly companies" there is not much room for debate. Maybe a bar fight./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

I guess we can agree to disagree /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Al

ccatfish · Oct 2, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

3rdbase -
Consider this - I have flown 17 airlines probably 2 million miles, across 60-70 cities in 5 different countries, and ya know what? I don't know any more about piloting a plane now than did before I started. If we reverse that, what makes you such an expert on business travel?

If you think I am making up all my experiences, you truly do represent the airline industry very well. Denial is part of the problem. You cannot possibly claim to represent me, the passenger, your customer, until you have walked in my shoes. Don't even try. It makes you look bad.

Anonymous Poster · Oct 2, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Twinkle Toes

Well, they said they wanted to be "closer to their customers" that's a quote. They have been subcontracting more and more items out, not only out of the company but out of the USA. China just finalized an order and said more could easily be on the way. So how does moving to Chicago help? Any of these people ever heard of phones? Or airplanes? The mood I get from Boeing workers I have contact with was gloomy even before the 9/11 stuff, just because they moved the corporate headquarters. Gloom = low productivity. This seems all too typical for many big companies. If that had smarts they'd grab a couple of guys off of the manufacturing floor and put them on the board of directors.

Has Boeing done something WITHOUT the union begging, pleading, striking for it? If they have, let me know. I can say they put out a quality product and are critical to the defense industry. But you know there's an item critical to make the plants grow...I don't like it's smell but I use it.

del

ccatfish · Oct 2, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Not that I really care (although it does affect ticket costs), but to make a point.....In case you ever wondered how much a UAL pilot makes:

http://plugin24.tripod.com/contracthighlights.html

The plan maximum is $370 per hour, multiplied by 78 hours per month (which may or may not be accurate) equates to about $342k per year. My earlier quote of $380k was off by 10%.

if you ever wonder what its like to fly, try www.untied.com

Edited by ccatfish on 10/02/01 07:39 PM (server time).

3rdbase · Oct 2, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Mr. Catfish,
All I have done is respond to your allegations. I have never claimed to be an expert on business travel, and have no desire to walk in your shoes. You have not refuted one of my claims, simply claimed I was in denial.
By the way, I did go to the websight you suggested. Pretty interesting the way you came up with your original number. First, only talk about the top 2% of their pilots or so.-that's who'd be in that position. Then, go to the biggest equipment they have, don't use current rates, but go out years hence, after 4 built in cost of living adjustments. (The fact that the current rate is over $100.0/hour less than what you use isn't important to you I guess.) Then use the maximum hours possible, (not that that is realistic), not once, but for 12 consecutive months, then throw on an additional $38,000 for some unknown reason, and claim, in the present tense, that's what they make. By the by, those numbers on that sight are higher than what's in their official printed contract, but what's accuracy got to do with making a point anyway.
Airline travel isn't what is used to be, and in my opinion ins't what it should be. It is, on balance, a lot less expensive than years ago. The absurd claims you make about salaries, and the mathmatical path you take to get there even before adding your $38000 "bonus," convinces me that there is no point in our discussing this further, as I believe you have an axe to grind. I will miss your condescending advice. Believe it or not, I wish you luck, I just hope you don't blame me for your next ticket.

TexasJeff · Oct 5, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Ok here is probally a very opionated statement. But some of the money is my TAX money is this bailout. The business I work for has had several times we have been down for 2 weeks or more at a cost of anywhere from 250$ to 500$ per minute and We recieved NO goverment bailout money. If a company can not stand 3 days of downtime then 2 weeks of reduced income they were probally poorly managed before the problem started.

ccatfish · Oct 8, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Ok 3base, I'll play some more. Let's reminisce a little:
1. I don't care to refute your statements, it was my original ones that were in question.
2. If you go back and read my post that first mentioned pilots salaries, I said: "· UA pilots latest contract pays up to $380k a year, more than my two doctor friends and veterinarian are paid combined." I didn't say "average", or "median", or anything other than "up to", as in "maximum". I didn't add the "bonus" rate to the contract either, so you'll need to take that complaint somewhere else.
3. You made this personal. I dislike the industry, you disliked my statements about the industry. You attacked me and a few others. I remember the first harsh tones of a personal nature came from you. I ignored them in the beginning, then my adolescent side got the best of me. You essentially called me a liar. How would you expect me to react?
4. Until you have paid for a few $2000 tickets, only to sit next to people that paid $199, its gonna be hard to understand my perspective.
5. Your statement about "why didn't you make other arrangements when you knew there was going to be a strike" says it all. As I remember, many flight attendants were stranded during the strikes as well. Why didn't they "make other arrangements"? You couldn't possibly know the answer.
6. I didn't even mention the practice of "work slowdowns". What the f... is that all about? How nice to punish the customer over a dispute that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
I won't open this thread again.

Anonymous Poster · Oct 8, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Saw something on the telly the other night, don't know if it's true, that the bailout money has done zip zero nothing to keep any people they originally said were going to be laid off. Neat, sounds like my tax dollars are going to support a bunch of planes sitting on the ground somewhere.

del

TerryinMD · Oct 8, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

Haven't heard that the money has been dispensed.

I believe that you have hit the nail right on the head, del. The planes are just sitting around and need the case to make the payments.

Terry

scruffy · Oct 8, 2001

Re: Dumb moves/airline bailout

It is my understanding that the planes are/were bought via U.S. Government funding in the first place. Part of the 'deal' is that they are subject to being called for transport of troops in time of need. So....I would say your (and mine) tax dollars were in use long before the OFFICIAL bailout package.