dumb trench digging question

[bellweather]

Here’s my newbie BH question…The way that I would approach digging a long trench between two points would be to start with the bucket at point-A and back up (while digging) until I get to point-B. But what if I don’t have room to “overrun” the trench with the tractor, meaning point-A is next to a building and point-B happens to be next to a boulder? Do I dig towards point B until I get as close as the tractor will allow, then turn the tractor around and dig from point-B until I connect to the trench? But if I do that my tractor will end up straddling the trench with no way to get across (without using boards)? OR do I get as close as I can to point-B and then work from the side, which makes digging a deep, narrow trench a little difficult? I’d really like to know how all you backhoe ninjas do it! Thanks.

 

[slowzuki]

With a full size TLB this is not a problem as it can use the bh to lift the rear of the machine when cross trenches. I don't know if a little machine can do this?

 

[rdln]

Very carefully. When I use the 9in bucket it is easy to cut the front wheels and drive over but trench will cave in a little. When using 24in bucket, I find it easier to cut wheels and back up over trench but things get ugly when outside front wheel goes in trench, 4wd comes in handy then. Trench still caves in a little.

never used a board, not smart enough for that, I guess a trailer ramp would be needed for strength.

Now on a bx23 and say a 16" trench, I dont think you have choice but to use a board or something.

I do crab the back of the tractor around a little but only when necessary, it is considered abuse.

 

[EddieWalker]

The last couple times I've gotten into that type of situation, I just dig from either end until I get close to connecting the two trenches. Then I back up the backhoe so I can swivel both ways and connect them while sitting perpindicular to the trench. Kind of like the capital letter "T" with the tractor being the downward part of the letter and the cross part being the trench. You move more dirt this way and it's not as pretty, but it does the job.

 

[PineRidge]

This is what has always worked for me.

 

[SPIKER]

I did it the way mentioned before by digging one end twards the other and then simply using FEL to raise the front wheel when traversing the trench and using the independant brakes to steer the tractor and the fel supports enough weight to keep the front end happy, then use back hoe to support & expend the tractor over the trench with the rear wheel, some collaps is inevetable this way but better than having the big hole in the center in my humble oppinion..

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Markm /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[v8dave]

Like most of the posters I dig from each end until I get the last bit to dig in the middle. Then the name of the game is to keep the backhoe pivot point over the trench area while keeping the tractor/backhoe stable.

Then, for the last portion, I back to the trench at a 45 degree angle. Just to the point where one rear wheel (say the right side) is at the end of the trench. This will allow the right outrigger to set down on the far side of the trench. Then the backhoe can swing 45 degrees toward the left trench side. You can then dig up about half the remaining trench.

Then move down and back up to the trench again this time at 60 to 70 degrees. The right tire rolls right up to the excavated trench and the swing pivot of the backhoe is over the trench (actually it won't be over, but very close). Then pivot the backhoe to the left again and dig the remaining trench up. I've been able to get the right outrigger to land on the side of most of the trenches I've dug. On the few that didn't, I just rolled forward (further out from the trench) and dug a wider trench. [Safety First! With some experience and if the soil is firm enough and the trench narrow enough, by angling the tractor/hoe in to the trench, you can put the tractor tire on one side of the trench and the outrigger on the far side of the trench.]

This technique will dig a slightly wider trench for the very last dig, because the backhoe pivot isn't over the trench. Depending on how neat you want to be, you will have some loose dirt in the trench you will have to remove with a shovel. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Or you can hit it again with the backhoe straight in at 90 degrees and make a slightly wider trench as the picture posted by Pineridge shows. I usually opt for the less manual labor and dig a bigger trench for the last bit. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Once again, be safe! Make sure the tractor is stable. Always support the tractor by the front bucket, cutting edge down, and the outriggers. You don't need or want the rubber tire suspension working when you are digging. Bucket cutting edge down will dig in and "plant" the tractor. Lifting the tractor on the flat bottom of the bucket will allow the tractor to move around.

 

[bellweather]

Thanks to all for the detailed and useful input. My first inclination was to use some boards, but it appears that conventional wisdom suggests digging from one side of the trench. Because I am digging what will be an open drainage ditch to help manage storm run-off, I wanted to try to keep things "neat", which is why I considered using boards. This is a great site and a fantastic knowledge base...I would be lost without it!

 

[BigEddy]

I did that last week. What I did was leave a 4 ' section in the middle, then backed up to the trench like a t but 2' to the right of the undug section with the pivot right over the trench. Then I dug full left - 90 degrees to the tractor- swinging the backhoe straight out and placing the spoils on the other side of the trench. I find that it's less "effective" digging out to the side, but for the last 4 feet it works fine and I only dig the trench width that way. A little planning helps - while digging the main trench either leave a spoils free place to work from , or move them out of the way before you start the last bit so you can deposit the last dirt at ground level, rather than up on an already big pile.
With my hoe I can get the pivot directly over the trench and keep both stabilizers on the side. I've tried working on a 45-60 degree angle but I always end up with a stabilizer pressing on air that way.

One other comment - you mentioned backing up as you dig. I assume you meant moving the tractor forward - not backwards over the trench - as you dig. My experience is that every time I span a trench, I eventually end up with a wheel in the hole. My wide bucket(trench), narrow wheelbase, dirt on one or both sides and any curves, when coupled with a collapse or slippery wet dirt usually results in me "dropping" a back wheel in and needing to go get the ramps to get back out. My hoe and stabilizers can lift me back up, but there doesn't seem to be enough force to actually swing the back end out of the hole. So I lose time getting the ramps out and in place and getting out. That happened last week as well. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Henro]

I have not had to complete a trench from the middle, but I have had to dig what was essentially a Tee trench.

Also had to clean out my trench in a couple spots where the sides caved in a little. Figured it would be a lot easier to use the backhoe than my back and a tool of choice... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Lots of good advice in this thread. One thing I was uncomfortable about was a possible trench side wall cave in when my rear wheel was inches from the edge.

I decided that using a 4x6 to support the far outrigger made sense and that is what I did, and would do in the future. It can only help, as it sits on both sides of the trench and give better support, in my opinion than just the outrigger sitting on the far side of the trench, close to the wall.

Attached is a picture of what I did. I think the same method would work equally well for completing the a trench that had to meet in the middle...

There is a little angle to the hoe, as compared to when the trench was dug originally, but that did not seem to be an issue in my case.

 

[Henro]

Another option might be to put something across the trench, that your rear wheels could ride on. I doubt this is practical unless you happen to have something like I did, which was a couple pieces of strong steel piling that I got a while ago...

Attached is a picture of what worked for me...the green line is the trench I was digging where a sewer line went in. The cross trench was where I dug down to find the lateral pipe that I had to connect to.

While this picture does not show exactly the same thing, it could be adapted to work on a trench that needed to be connected in the middle... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[v8dave]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Another option might be to put something across the trench, that your rear wheels could ride on. I doubt this is practical unless you happen to have something like I did, which was a couple pieces of strong steel piling that I got a while ago...

Attached is a picture of what worked for me...the green line is the trench I was digging where a sewer line went in. The cross trench was where I dug down to find the lateral pipe that I had to connect to.

While this picture does not show exactly the same thing, it could be adapted to work on a trench that needed to be connected in the middle... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif )</font>

Henro makes a good point here--"the green line is the trench I was digging ." Get a few paint cans meant to spray lines on the ground. It helps a bunch to enable digging a straight line. Don't even try to dig a curve without a line on the ground.

Henro's first picture shows quite well how I was trying to describe how to back up to a trench at an angle.

 

[KiotiJohn]

If you have trailer loading ramps, they should work well for this purpose. John

 

[bellweather]

More useful info, great! using the a board to support the outrigger is a good idea. Thanks again.

 

[richardbro]

Note: I didn't realize this was an old thread when responding, but the info might be useful...

There is a pivot maneuver to get the back wheels across the trench using the backhoe to lift them and the stabilizers to steady everything up (I started another thread on this see http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kubota-owning-operating/167751-bx24-backhoe-pivot-move-over.html).

Check here for a description of the maneuver: Tips

This works for a full-sized machine (I've seen it done) but the BX24 seems a little too short to accomplish this. Doing this also takes a bit of nerve since there's a good chance of tipping if you hit the BH swing a bit too hard.

I've used 4x8 sheet stock to cover up one part of the trench to permit digging straight in. That works pretty well except last week when I did this with 12mm aspenite (flakeboard). It was interesting to say the least getting off the trench. Some 3/4 inch plywood works much better.

I line up three or four 4x8s with 8 foot sides across the trench and leap-frog them as I dig and move. That is pretty secure as long as you keep the trench edges free of mounds of dirt that will cause the 4x8 to rest unevenly. The 4x8 will bend a bit but generally won't crack (except for the aspenite :shocked as long as your wheels aren't on the board directly over the trench. When you are in digging position the 4x8s and wheels are actually supported by the trench edges and the 4x8's effect is mainly to prevent your wheels from falling into the trench and to keep the trench walls from potentially caving in.

The only risky points to this method is moving on and off the trench and boards - thats when your back wheels and the weight of the backhoe would be supported only by the sheet stock. I generally double-up the 4x8 that will take the weight of the back wheels when moving on or off.

The pivot maneuver would be a whole lot simpler but for now I'm sticking with the boards.