Dump Trailer Battery

[woody]

Okay guys I'm digging up an old thread, the cheap DCCA wire got me but it did last 2 years and did a good job. But I hauled some limbs and stuff and when I went to dump it would not dump the second load and when I connect to my truck with the Anderson connector it did not make a difference so after using a jump box to dump it I go home and put the battery on charge. The battery charger after about 30 minutes said the battery was bad, so I connected a different charger to it and it eventually gave the same indication, so I replaced the battery and tested the 7 way plug, yep blown fuse and I replaced that. My grandson called and his car was broke down so I connected up my tilt bed and go get him after loading his car and driving just a few miles to unload the battery was low so I connected the Anderson connector and it was no help so I used the jump box again and when I got home this is what I found.


The wires practically fell apart when I touched them and the breaker feels like it is corroded inside when I try to move the lever. This set up has worked so well for 2 years I will be trying to find something to replace it with but it will not be DCCA wire. Hope this helps someone.

 

[cmyoung2]

Woody,
Have the same green rot on mine, usually every 3-4 years. I just cut some cable off and put on new connectors. Lucky so far to have enough cable, unlucky that is shows up when I need the winch.
I have a front receiver mounted winch, figured I would also need it the back, so I ran 2 ga cable both ways with Anderson connectors on both ends and the winch. I also put an Anderson connector on a short set of heavy jumper cables so when I hook up to a dump or tilt bed with a low battery I can just hook up the cables and get the job done. I can also jump off other equipment without raising the hood.

 

[LD1]

Not sure when I did mine with actual copper. But its still alive and kicking.

Actually, since I did the direct wire....I dont care about the trailer battery at all. I can completely disconnect the trailer battery and it still dumps fine.

I actually use that anderson connector now to power the transfer tank pump when Im not using the dump trailer.

Regarding blowing the fuse...I assume you mean the 12v aux fuse on the truck side?

Some of the "better" brand dump trailers dont have that issue because they isolate the dump circuit from the charge circuit when dumping. On the cheaper trailers the easiest way is to simply unhook the 7-way when dumping.

The trucks are usually fused at 30a maybe 40 on that 12v aux circuit. But the dump trailer dont know that. So when you go to dump it tries to pull amperage from both the truck and dump battery. If the dump batter is too weak it tries to pull too much from the truck.

Something else you can do is wire a little relay to isolate your truck.

Use pins 85 and 86 (control)....to energize the relay when the dump buttons are pushed. Simply wire 85 to the solenoid on the pump and ground 86.

The load side of the relay use the NC terminal 87a I think, and #30 for the truck charge to battery.

So the truck is always charging the battery.....except when you push the button to dump and it energizes that relay.....87a becomes open and wont blow truck fuse

 

[woody]

Thanks for the reply, I trimmed off about 6 inches of the positive cable and pressed on a new lug but I had to remove the 300 amp breaker I will replace it when I figure out what I'm going to do.
LD1, I do have the relay wired in and it's been there for years, but since I have pulled other trailers I can't really say the dump trailer blew the fuse' that's just when I found it. I need to wire me up an LED light on that relay then I would know when the fuse was good. I'm thinking about replacing it with 2ga copper wire but that will be expensive. Since the connectors on the trailers are also connected to their own battery I may have to replace everything. If the set up had not worked as well as it does I would not even worry with it but it does.

 

[LD1]

Yes, wiring an led...or some sort of light to 87 gives you positive confirmation that charge circuit works every time you push the dump button.

Honestly a isolation relay and confirmation light could be packaged into a nice unit (if they already dont make something like that) and probably wouldnt add $20 to the cost of a dump trailer. Blows my mind why it isnt standard. Because on a cheaply wired trailer, omitting this step....the FIRST time your dump battery gets a little weak you blow the truck fuse....and no one ever knows until their battery starts letting them down and thats when they discover it.

I honestly dont use my dump trailer much anymore. No longer cutting and selling alot of firewood. And mostly it just gets used around my place.....but I just have some adapter leads and run it off the tractor remotes. Way faster, and no battery worry

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Be aware that much of the “automotive” wire is now copper clad aluminum conductors. Manufacturers like it because they save weight/fuel. The aluminum wire also embrittles easily with any movement or vibration. So, they are prone to failure. Look for actual copper wire when you wire things.

 

[LD1]

Be aware that much of the “automotive” wire is now copper clad aluminum conductors. Manufacturers like it because they save weight/fuel. The aluminum wire also embrittles easily with any movement or vibration. So, they are prone to failure. Look for actual copper wire when you wire things.

I'll admit I havent worked on vehicle wiring on anything much newer than 2015-2016....but havent seen the trend to CCA wire in autos. At least not on anything OEM

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

I'll admit I havent worked on vehicle wiring on anything much newer than 2015-2016....but havent seen the trend to CCA wire in autos. At least not on anything OEM

I have an 08 Dodge Ram with the MegaCab. The factory wiring to the rear doors is the copper clad aluminum, and breaks in the convoluted tube between the cab, and the door. Second time they broke, I took a look at the broken ends with a magnifying glass. The center of the conductors was aluminum color, outside was copper. Replaced the wires through the tube with a high quality copper wire of the same gauge but more strands. Hasn’t broken since.

Manufacturers are cheap. The copper clad costs about half of what the all copper does.

 

[woody]

Okay I got the wire replaced with all copper and a new connector for the rear of the truck, I didn't have the proper crimping tool for those Anderson style connectors, and those connectors are tough. I used a pair of bolt cutters being careful not to cut all the way through. I was telling my grandson about it and he said they have a Milwaukee crimper at work and would bring it by, so I popped the connectors out and he done a crimp with that thing and it worked like it was nothing to it. I thought I wanted one until I saw the cost WOW, over 3G for something I may never need again, Nope no way.

 

[LD1]

Okay I got the wire replaced with all copper and a new connector for the rear of the truck, I didn't have the proper crimping tool for those Anderson style connectors, and those connectors are tough. I used a pair of bolt cutters being careful not to cut all the way through. I was telling my grandson about it and he said they have a Milwaukee crimper at work and would bring it by, so I popped the connectors out and he done a crimp with that thing and it worked like it was nothing to it. I thought I wanted one until I saw the cost WOW, over 3G for something I may never need again, Nope no way.

Any time I work with those anderson connectors I always solder them on instead of crimp.

I know there are arguments both ways....but not having one of those expensive crimpers either....I work with what I got. And I can solder

 

[woody]

I thought about soldering but I was not sure of the type of solder to use and the solder I had was in some of my Dad's stuff so I didn't know about it either.
When I done my big trailer I used welding cable so I think it's gonna be alright, but my dump trailer was done with the CCA cable, it looks alright now but I do have what I need to redo it if I need too.

 

[bearthebruce]

look for 60/40 TinLead Rosin core solder.. If you want a slightly stronger joint, you can also use 63/37 TinLead...

Lead has been outlawed in many places and has been replaced by a combo of Atimony and others... It works but is not as easy to use.

 

[RayIN]

I've often wondered about co-owning equipment along those lines. It seems there would be a lot of opportunity. I know lots of people who own their own log splitters, purely for personal use, splitting a few cords per year. When you look at the hours any one splitter is used, it would make sense for several people to go in together and buy one nice one. The same could be said for more expensive equipment, perhaps things that no individual could financially justify owning.

Of course, co-owning equipment could also be a great way to ruin a friendship. I used to lend various equipment out to friends. I've learned my lesson. Anymore, the most complicated and expensive thing I lend out is a shovel. If things get much more expensive/complex than that, the loan comes with an operator (me). Then there is always that one person who can manage to break an anvil. How do you decide what is abuse or an accident that some individual should pay to repair vs normal wear and tear?

Last summer I loaned a neighbor my splittin mall i made at the shop; 10# head of brake die steel, with a Sch 80 2" pipe for a handle. He broke the handle, still haven't got it and my wedge back.
I know a man that went it with 3 others and bought a MH. Afer a few years he sold his share to the other 3. He said every time he used it there was something broken or worn out that had to be fixed before he could use the motorhome.

 

[John_Mc]

Not sure when I did mine with actual copper. But its still alive and kicking.

Actually, since I did the direct wire....I dont care about the trailer battery at all. I can completely disconnect the trailer battery and it still dumps fine.

I actually use that anderson connector now to power the transfer tank pump when Im not using the dump trailer.

Regarding blowing the fuse...I assume you mean the 12v aux fuse on the truck side?

Some of the "better" brand dump trailers dont have that issue because they isolate the dump circuit from the charge circuit when dumping. On the cheaper trailers the easiest way is to simply unhook the 7-way when dumping.

The trucks are usually fused at 30a maybe 40 on that 12v aux circuit. But the dump trailer dont know that. So when you go to dump it tries to pull amperage from both the truck and dump battery. If the dump batter is too weak it tries to pull too much from the truck.

Something else you can do is wire a little relay to isolate your truck.

Use pins 85 and 86 (control)....to energize the relay when the dump buttons are pushed. Simply wire 85 to the solenoid on the pump and ground 86.

The load side of the relay use the NC terminal 87a I think, and #30 for the truck charge to battery.

So the truck is always charging the battery.....except when you push the button to dump and it energizes that relay.....87a becomes open and wont blow truck fuse

I'd like to add that circuit to my dump trailer, when I finally get around to wiring it for on-road use. It has no lights or trailer connector at the moment, it's just a self-contained deep cycle battery with no connection to the tow vehicle.

What are these pin numbers you are referring to? I'm assuming they are something on a specific model of truck. However, if my controls are on the trailer, wouldn't I be wiring this on the trailer side as well? I'm assuming a normally closed relay, rated at the appropriate amperage for my charging circuit, with the coil of the relay energized by the dump button to open the relay contacts.

I have a single-acting cylinder, with gravity return, so no real need to isolate from the town vehicle for lowering the trailer: all it's doing is energizing the solenoid to open the hydraulic circuit for lowering.

The other thing I wonder about: my dump trailer has a deep cycle AGM battery, which is supposed to be charged to a slightly higher voltage than the traditional flooded lead-acid battery in my truck. If I recall, the difference is just a few tenths of a volt. (I do leave the trailer on a charger/maintainer with an AGM-specific charge cycle when not in use.) Is that an issue for one or both of the batteries to be connected together?

 

[Topzide]

For crimping larger wires/ connectors, you can get a 12 ton crimper off of Ebay for under $100. I picked up one last year, works great from 8ga up to 2/0. Have even made up some security cables by using lead bolt anchors.

 

[LD1]

I'd like to add that circuit to my dump trailer, when I finally get around to wiring it for on-road use. It has no lights or trailer connector at the moment, it's just a self-contained deep cycle battery with no connection to the tow vehicle.

What are these pin numbers you are referring to? I'm assuming they are something on a specific model of truck. However, if my controls are on the trailer, wouldn't I be wiring this on the trailer side as well? I'm assuming a normally closed relay, rated at the appropriate amperage for my charging circuit, with the coil of the relay energized by the dump button to open the relay contacts.

I have a single-acting cylinder, with gravity return, so no real need to isolate from the town vehicle for lowering the trailer: all it's doing is energizing the solenoid to open the hydraulic circuit for lowering.

The other thing I wonder about: my dump trailer has a deep cycle AGM battery, which is supposed to be charged to a slightly higher voltage than the traditional flooded lead-acid battery in my truck. If I recall, the difference is just a few tenths of a volt. (I'm do leave the trailer on a charger/maintainer with an AGM-specific charge cycle when not in use.) Is that an issue for one or both of the batteries to be connected together?

The pin numbers I reference are the numbers on the actually relay.

All little cube automotive relays use that numbering

 

[woody]

I'd like to add that circuit to my dump trailer, when I finally get around to wiring it for on-road use. It has no lights or trailer connector at the moment, it's just a self-contained deep cycle battery with no connection to the tow vehicle.

What are these pin numbers you are referring to? I'm assuming they are something on a specific model of truck. However, if my controls are on the trailer, wouldn't I be wiring this on the trailer side as well? I'm assuming a normally closed relay, rated at the appropriate amperage for my charging circuit, with the coil of the relay energized by the dump button to open the relay contacts.

some of us have added a relay to our trailers so the battery can be charged from the vehicle through the 7 way connector but the relay opens the charging circuit from the vehicle so it will not blow the fuse while operating the hydraulic pump. Also you can connect an led light to the relay which indicates the circuit is working.