Dump Trailer

[SkunkWerX]

I think the ATF spray was quite the proper Christening!

The Pics are great. thanks!
I fully understand what you mean about having to "help it" lift as the battery lost it's juice. I once had a hand-me-down dump bed that slid into a full size pick-up. My business partner and myself would use 2x4s and pry up on the dump bed from either side. Those first few inches are the killer.

We would also place a brick or other object on the gas pedal, to kick up the RPMs for better amp flow, ours was wired into the Pick-up's battery.

Please allow me to make a few observations and suggestions, not being critical, as I think you did an excellent job, this trailer "rocks".
Just maybe offer some ideas about the electrical and charging.

The electrical umbilical cable would be great. Unlike our Pick-up rig, the great thig about using tractors, is that you can bump your RPMs up easily while it's sitting, and that will provide some extra current flow. Sandman's suggestion of fusing it is right on the money. But, just like a starter or any other high drain equipment, make sure also, to use a good size gauge of wire. There is a reason jumper cables are fatter than 22 ga.

The Deep Cycle has me thinking. Your dumper motor is a High Draw item, it doesn't draw for very long, but those short bursts are big amp draws.
Deep Cycles have a limit on the amount of current/amp-draw you can get from them.
It's the same reason why they charge more slowly than a standard cranking battery.
I'm taking a wild guess that may be why , even on your first try, with no load, you noticed it was slow. Again, just a guess from far away.

You could test this theory pretty easily, by taking a known good auto/starting battery and swapping it with your Deep Cycle. See if you notice a change in how robustly it lifts?

For equipment that doesn't run daily, or even weekly, I have always had good luck with Marine Deep Cycle/Starting batteries. They are like a combo of a Deep and a Cranking battery. They are able to give good current flow for those quick bursts, but, yet give the benifits of a Deep Cycle.


The Electrical connection from the tractor to the dumper is a no brainer, I would do that first, and check your results. If they are satisfactory, you are Good-To-Go. If you still notice any sluggishness, swap to a car battery to see if the Deep Cycle might be limiting your current draw.
You could also perform this test quickly using jumper cables off of a tractor running at mid-RPMs. If lifts stronger and/or more quickly, then you know the motor is asking for more Amps.

Does your motor/pump unit have a tag showing AmpDraw while operating?
if so, compare that the fine print on the Deep Cycle in terms of it's Amp Output, that may tell you something.

Sounds, at most, like fine tuning, otherwise, this dump trailer is a Great machine!

It's giving me (and I am sure others) a lot of ideas!

Thanks for taking the time to take all the photos, and walk us thru the entire build, it's been educating and very interesting!!

 

[easygo]

"Home" at last!!! Looking good there Iplayfaremer. As for the other problems concerned, look at the bright side. None of them will take nearly as much of an effort to fix as it took to get the trailer going.
Happy dumping!

 

[sandman2234]

There is a guy here who has dumped a couple loads of dirt on my place. The first time, we had to boost the battery, which appeared new and I suggested he have someone look at his truck pigtail to see if power was being put out by his tow vehicle. Apparrntly it wasn't as a new wire was fed into it on the last load. He drives it about 20 miles to my place to dump dirt, and it would seem that would be enough to keep the battery charged for a one time dump.
Due to the massive amount of energy used at one time, I don't think a trickle charger is going to do you much good, unless there is a lot of time between dumps, which I doubt. A constant charge from the tow vehicle, plus the storage ability of now having two batteries would be so much better. If you can find quick disconnects, install them in line of some #4 wire or something able to handle at least close to the output of your alternator system.
When installing a 2000 watt continous duty inverter in the truck I drove, the company required fuses of some sort. I priced them, and was shocked at the prices they get for them, until I started looking at the "music" (and i use that term loosely) end of automotive aftermarket products. Seems high rated fuses are a must for the amps those boom boxes use and are a lot cheaper than the market I was looking into. However, automobiles have also started using 50 and 60 amp fuses since I set up that inverter the last time, so availability may be commonplace, if the holder can be fitted to your arrangement.
A cheap set of jumper cables is a good place to get a good selection of the wire you need. A set of couplers for welding leads sized to that wire would make connecting and disconnecting less painful. Probably available at your local do it yourself wharehouse if they sell any welding supplies.
You "might" be able to run the ground thru the hitch to keep from having to run two sets of wires, but I would still consider a separate ground wire with it.
David from jax

 

[SkunkWerX]

Relating to Sandman's suggestion,
The connectors they use for electric trolling motors on boats have fairly thick wires on them, any boat supply place will have them, even some Wallymarts have them.

That would make a good "quick connect" between tow-tractor and trailer, and it would be an easy way to set up a few tow vehicles using same plugs.

 

[bones1]

SkunkWerx has it right.You need a good starting battery for the pump.Here's some good info here on hooking up trailer charging setups. Awhile back I emailed them about charging the battery mounted on my trailer that powers a winch and a Haldex 12 volt hydraulic pump.First of all I was instructed NOT to use a deep cycle battery for the same reasons SkunkWerx indicated. If you are using the standard 7 pin trailer connectors the 1o'clock and 11 o'clock pins are are used for charging trailer batteries. Good luck.
Hellroaring Battery Isolator/Combiner notes for Multi-Battery isolation in RV/Camper/Trailer Applications read this too
Reviewer's Notebook: Hellroaring Dual Battery Isolator - Chevy/GM at Off-Road.com

With a second battery and a Hellroaring Battery Isolator/Combiner installed in your vehicle, you can use energy from both batteries combined to supply the needed power for your winching application. By doing so, you can more than double your electrical capacity! How can that be, you may say? To answer that question, we must understand what happens as a battery discharge rate changes. It is well known that when a battery discharges at a current that is higher than its standard 20 hour discharge rate, it will lose available capacity.
For example:
A 50 AH battery that is being discharged at 100 Amps may only supply 18 AH (at 20C)!
If two 50 AH batteries supply 50 amps each for a total of 100 Amps, each of the batteries may supply 25 AH for a total of 50 AH. This is about 2.8 times the capacity compared to using a single battery alone. But this comparison assumes that all other factors remain the same. The fact is, you will obtain even more capacity because the total current will be less than 100 Amps! Because each battery will have less voltage drop internally, the terminal voltage will be higher. The higher voltage means that there is more power available to your winch. This also means that, for the same winching power, you will require less current. So by using two batteries for winching, you can obtain 300 % of the capacity you would have obtained from a single battery (depending on actual load, battery size balance, and current available from the alternator.) As a side benefit, you will not need to discharge as deeply to get the same job done. It is also known that the life span of a battery is inversely related to its depth of discharge. Therefore, when your batteries discharge less deeply, they will last longer.
An excellent setup for this system is to connect your winch system to your main battery and wire in a second battery in a backup configuration through a Hellroaring BIC-75300A configured for high current. You can choose to gain operating capacity by switching in the backup, OR you can save the backup for starting power. Your choice!

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm going to ask the dumb question...

Do I need some kind of a voltage regulator or charge controller?

 

[SkunkWerX]

I'm going to ask the dumb question...

Do I need some kind of a voltage regulator or charge controller?

No sir, your towing vehicle has it all taken care of.
When you are connected to your Dump Battery, the tractor will charge it, but, just like your tractor's battery, it won't over-charge it.

It will be a case of diminishing return charging. You will start with your dump battery at full charge. Each time you dump cycle, you will take some charge away. But, in between dumps, your tow tractor's charging system will be pumping some juice back in, to replace what you used, it may not be able to put it back at 100%, but it will replenishing it for the next dump, and so on.

The solar idea would be OK for down-time, like when it's sitting around for long periods, but it's not gonig to add squat in a short period. If it's kept near a commercial power source, get one of the battery "maintainers" just to keep your pump battery fresh when it's in storage.

I'd use the umbilical cable, and I would repalce the Deep Cycle with regular starting battery of proper capacity. I think you will see quite a noticeable difference.

To prove it, before buying another battery, just "borrow" a car battery from another vehicle, hook it up and watch it perform.

 

[Iplayfarmer]

No sir, your towing vehicle has it all taken care of.
When you are connected to your Dump Battery, the tractor will charge it, but, just like your tractor's battery, it won't over-charge it.

It will be a case of diminishing return charging. You will start with your dump battery at full charge. Each time you dump cycle, you will take some charge away. But, in between dumps, your tow tractor's charging system will be pumping some juice back in, to replace what you used, it may not be able to put it back at 100%, but it will replenishing it for the next dump, and so on.

The solar idea would be OK for down-time, like when it's sitting around for long periods, but it's not gonig to add squat in a short period. If it's kept near a commercial power source, get one of the battery "maintainers" just to keep your pump battery fresh when it's in storage.

I'd use the umbilical cable, and I would repalce the Deep Cycle with regular starting battery of proper capacity. I think you will see quite a noticeable difference.

To prove it, before buying another battery, just "borrow" a car battery from another vehicle, hook it up and watch it perform.

Okay. Make sure I have this right, though, before I go and so something stupid.

I should be able to use medium guage wire (12 AWG or 14 AWG).

If the umbilical to the tow vehicle is hooked in parallel with the trailer battery, the actual power to dump will mostly come from the trailer battery. The current through the umbilical will be determined by the difference in charge between the vehicle battery and the trailer battery. So, as long as neither the tow vehicle battery nor the trailer battery gets very low, there shouldn't be much current flowing through the wires.

??

 

[MrJimi]

IPF, I think your tow vehicle is your tractor. ? It has to have plenty of volts/amps to put out, to do you any good. Think about that.. You need lots of juice to pick this thing up and down and it has to be replenished from somewhere ?
bottom line is
Ya need juice for it to operate properly
Jim

 

[patrick_g]

I know I may draw criticism but...

A good way to wire the dump trailer battery to the tow vehicle is with a relay designed for constant use (not a starter solenoid.) These relays are standard equipment for hooking up a camper to a pickup and are widely available and not too pricey. Alternatively you can use a solid state (got diodes in it) isolator but it will probably cost more, and it will prevent the tow vehicle batt from helping the dump trailer batt which is not my preferred setup but if that is what you want the diode isolator is the choice for you not the relay.

The advantage is the dump batt will only be connected to the tow vehicle electrical system when the tow vehicle switch is in the "RUN" position so there is less chance of a problem. This arrangement lets the tow vehicle battery and alternator assist the trailer battery.

I would prefer to wire the "charge line" from the tow vehicle to the dumper with fairly heavy wire (at least #6 but larger is better.) This lets the tow vehicle battery "help" the dumper battery in a more meaningful way and not just let the connecting wire act as a trickle charger. Don't worry about discharging your vehicle batt as the two batts are only in parallel when the tow vehicle switch is in the run position (and probably running with good alternator output.)

About running the engine at high RPM to get alternator output. A properly functioning alternator will do all you need at a fast idle. In the olden days (generator equipped cars with manual trans) when you drove up to a stop sign your headlights very visibly dimmed quite significantly and brightened only when the RPM was increased significantly. You don't see this effect much now because alternators can do quite a lot more than a generator at lower RPM. You should not see much improvement when over revving your engine vs running at a fast idle. This is especially true if the charge line is not undersized.

For what it is worth, my new dump trailer came with a deep cycle battery. I'll have to check carefully to see if it is a combo deep cycle/starting battery but I suspect not. although the pump has to run in most systems (power down) to lower the bed, the amp draw should be significantly less as you are doing minimal work lowering the bed, full or empty. If you want to "gild the lilly" and save electricity install a bypass line with manual valve to let the bed down without running the pump. Not really necessary but it would save a few AH.

Harbor freight sells a battery maintainer, wall wart (yes wall wart not wall mart) style, on sale for under $10 and it will keep your battery fully charged (which is like antifreeze protection in batteries) and will not over charge or boil the battery dry. I have used a couple of theirs for a few years and they do as good as the name brand ones I have. I will be mounting one in the battery-pump compartment/tool box on the new dump trailer.

Something of interest regarding over the highway dump trailers. If I don't pull my new dumper on a public road it is insured by my ranch policy (theft vandalism etc) but if I want it covered just in case I take it on the road (so far only one mile road travel) then it is $55/6 months with $100 deductible. Just what I need more insurance payments... but who can risk the liability?

Cool pix, neat little dumper. Sorry about the carriage. A silver lining is no one was hurt not even the poor frightened horses. With a pair of Belgians, brakes on the carriage would be a joke. Maybe a good Danforth anchor!

Pat