E-15 Fuel, who is using it? and why?

[deepNdirt]

I cannot see for the life of me who would be using the Ethanol fuels, all I hear about them is how they are going to mess up our engines,
Warnings Not to Use

 

[wyeguy]

I don't use it for anything. Even with the government subsidized price, I save money using regular with the better gas mileage I get. Not to mention how much ethanol can foul things up. I feel sorry for folks who live in areas where ethanol is all they're allowed to sell. Just another example of socialists "taking care of us". The environmental disadvantages of corn-based (not cane-based) ethanol production make the whole program a sad, sad joke. Farmers, with their subsidies, might disagree.

 

[oldtractors]

Since there are only 4 or 5 stations in the country selling it, probably not many. I saw nothing that was accurate in the Fox news report. Ethanol is heavier than gasoline, and evil phase separation is the reason your car will be ruined? They probably will be saying that it will cause brake and tire problems next.

I have mixed my own in my 2003 S-10. I have run tanks of up to E50 without any issues. Same or better power. Mileage didn't go down much until about 40-50%E. Anything more than E50 would cause my check engine light to come on - due to the mixture being leaner than expected. Truck still ran ok. It has run 210,000 miles- all with at least E10 and the engine hasn't blown up yet.

Here is another study: Iowa newspaper finds no problems using E15; biofuel could have saved drivers $69m

Currently, the price of gasoline is cheap enough that ethanol is selling for the same price, so there isn't a lot of justification to run E15. But if it is available to me and is cheaper than E10, I would run it.

 

[EMB5530]

No good ol days any more.
Most gas stations around my area have 10% crap(oops I mean alcohol).
The diff in milage sucks.
My SC motor absolutly hates the crap.
How about we grow edible corn and use other proven alternatives for fuel.(and lubricants)

 

[deepNdirt]

I heard them report that E-15 was equivalent to a 84 octane, which is to me unspeakable to use in any engine, I remember when having to run at least a 92 octane to get half-way good performance from an engine, but once you started running the 92 we had to keep using it, otherwise running anything lower like the 89 octane would have our engine pinging & knocking, 87 octane would require having to use a octane boost additive, So I for-see if using the E-fuels it will be necessary to use a octane boost additive, or stay driving in the little-old-lady-lane on the Interstates,

 

[Tig]

After 20 some years of E10 use I have seen no ill effects. That covers snowmobiles, chain saws, lawn mowers cars, outboards, weed whacker etc..
On the up side, I have not had a frozen fuel line with E10.
Up here it's E10 only for the past ten years, there's been no mayhem and destruction.
I can't imagine E15 being much different.

 

[Patches]

After 20 some years of E10 use I have seen no ill effects. That covers snowmobiles, chain saws, lawn mowers cars, outboards, weed whacker etc..
On the up side, I have not had a frozen fuel line with E10.
Up here it's E10 only for the past ten years, there's been no mayhem and destruction.
I can't imagine E15 being much different.

Your Canadian sled manufacturer seems to disagree with ya. Bombardiere says 10% MAX

 

[DEWFPO]

I haven't seen E15 on the street yet, and I plan to avoid it like the plague. It's rotten enough now that I have no choice at all but to use E10 or switch to diesel vehicles. The nearest 100% gasoline station is over 200 miles from here and there are only a handful left in the entire state. A dying breed unfortunately.

DEWFPO

 

[Patches]

I haven't seen E15 on the street yet, and I plan to avoid it like the plague. It's rotten enough now that I have no choice at all but to use E10 or switch to diesel vehicles. The nearest 100% gasoline station is over 200 miles from here and there are only a handful left in the entire state. A dying breed unfortunately.

DEWFPO

It won't be long before your friends in Washington mandate 10/15% bio in your diesel. If there is one thing those knotheads in Washington know how to do, It's how to screw things up

 

[Gary Fowler]

The idiots in Washington listen to the onesided views of environmentalist who are well funded to set the examples for the rest of us to follow. The enviros seldom show the true picture or even want the whole picture it it doesnt suit their agenda. A few kucklehead "scientist" did a 10 minute study showing how clean alcohol burned and the thing went viral to the world saying that we could reduce the pollution by 85% if we used alcohol (E85) but then car makers said no way the fuel systems wont handle it so they settled for 10% which gets 10% less mileage so we burn the same amount of gas. All this time, eviroheads are lobbying the car makers to change their fuel systems to burn the alcohol so they can up the content so we can get even worse gas mileage. Its a deadly spiral that will eventually kill the automobile which is what the environmentalist want for America (except for themselves that is). What is hypocritical of the envirohead is them driving or flying thousands of miles to participate in a rally to demonstrate against atmosphere pollution which is as bad as our president taking his entourage a few thousand miles via AF1 and all the ancillary aircraft and automobiles that run ahead to set up security to plant a tree and burning a couple hundred thousand gallons of fuel to do it.

 

[Patches]

Just tell us how you really feel :duh:

 

[Gary Fowler]

I cant, its a family oriented site.
That video on E15 use was a bit (no a lot) outdated. They said that any car before 2012 would void the warranty using E15 but I have a 2007 flexfuel certified to use up to E 85 from GM so I know they were made at that point. I use pure gas whenever I can get it and the 10% stuff at other times and can tell the less mileage difference with just 10% so I sure dont want to use E85. I get so pissed at the save the planet guys that want to STOP drilling in the artic because of the reindeer when in fact the deer congregate under the current alaska pipeline for shade in the summer and a bit of radiant heat in the winter. Responsible drilling in the winter only is the way to go, not NO DRILLING. Winter drilling when the ground is frozen solid does no damage to the environment and would produce plenty of our needed resource. Blocking the pipeline that would deliver crude from Canada to the USA is another SNAFU. We could totally cut our dependence on Middle East countries who despise the USA by using only USA, Mexico and Canadain produced oil.
If I were King of the World, I would cut off all electric power, natural gas and sale of any fuel to everyone who is in favor of no more oil exploration so they could see what will happen when there is no more. Give them a reindeer to ride and snuggle up to in winter. THAT IS HOW I REALLY FEEL!!!!!!!

 

[Diamondpilot]

I haven't seen E15 on the street yet, and I plan to avoid it like the plague. It's rotten enough now that I have no choice at all but to use E10 or switch to diesel vehicles. The nearest 100% gasoline station is over 200 miles from here and there are only a handful left in the entire state. A dying breed unfortunately.

DEWFPO

I am in the same situation. E10 is required by law here and so is B2 bio diesel. Now even the marinas have E10 which was my last option for real gas but not for the last 3 seasons.

Chris

 

[Bigfoot62]

Well, so far, we still have a couple of local stations that are selling non-ethanol fuel. Don't know how much longer it will last, but they have my business as long as they do.

I don't have any "FlexFuel" engines, except for two cars: 2010 and 2011. I had originally thought that E10 would be no big deal. Was I wrong. I've had nothing but trouble from ethanol.
Fuel lines and priming bulbs falling apart on chainsaws and trimmers.
Carburetors gummed up. (and never had a problem with that before)
More spark plugs fouled out and replaced in the first month I used E10 than probably I've had in the last 20 years. Some of those spark plugs cost up to $14 each.
Poor fuel mileage.

Yeah, man, I just love ethanol.

 

[Tig]

Your Canadian sled manufacturer seems to disagree with ya. Bombardiere says 10% MAX

For a lot (most?) of my engines the recommended fuel is E0 or leaded. That doesn't change my experience with E10.
At some point in the increasing eth ratio I would expect carbureted engines will need some mixture adjustment, but checking plugs, jets and mixture screws is nothing new. Modern fuel injected vehicles should be able to make their own adjustments.
Here's an E40 burning skidoo that BRP is quite proud of.
2012 Clean Snowmobile Challenge Winners Chose Ski-Doo | Ski-Doo On Track
There's a lot of fear being spread in new territory about E anything, but from my perspective, 20 years down the E10 road, I have no problems to report. If anything, I'm ten years overdue on changing the fuel lines on my sleds. The 66 evinrude fuel line was last changed in the pre E10, late 80s. Sleds and snowblowers did not get used last year. They fired up fine last week. I couldn't tell you what I'm doing different that the people who are having trouble, but I used to love to fuss over my machines at the beginning of each season. Those days seem long gone. I'm 10 years over due on plug and filter changes.
This is the first I've heard of E15. I'll have to look around to see if it's headed my way.

 

[deepNdirt]

I'm curious to know if these fuels are being experimented to use in airplanes? I wonder if the Big-Wigs who are passing this has enough trust in it to use it in their travel? My guess is No!.... In all the past test and experiments that have been performed using man made formulated/alternative fuels, ....all have had some kind of problem preventing them to continue the use of it,
Look at what happen with the Hydrogen idea, It would of been too costly for the auto manufacture to redesign an engine to hold up from the use of hydrogen gases, And when having to pass the cost onto the consumers would be risky and likely result in lowering the sale's of cars, So instead the auto industries backed off and let the aftermarket industry take over the idea, Conversion kits hit the market designed to run on our existing engines, However! even with efficiency and performance gain it would tremendously reduce the life of an engine, Or either we would have to rebuild the internals of the engine to hold up to it, which would be very costly, So again we ask ourselves, what have we saved?

 

[Patches]

For a lot (most?) of my engines the recommended fuel is E0 or leaded. That doesn't change my experience with E10.
At some point in the increasing eth ratio I would expect carbureted engines will need some mixture adjustment, but checking plugs, jets and mixture screws is nothing new. Modern fuel injected vehicles should be able to make their own adjustments.
Here's an E40 burning skidoo that BRP is quite proud of.
2012 Clean Snowmobile Challenge Winners Chose Ski-Doo | Ski-Doo On Track

BRP had nothing to do with that, other than build the stock sled ,equipped with a 600ACE Rotax engine which IT recommends not be operated on fuel containing more than a 10% ratio of ethanol to gasoline. Kudos to the students at Clarkson for their modifications;question being(how long will that engine operate and at what level of efficiency at this concentration?)

 

[Gary Fowler]

Modifying current technology engines to burn alternative fuels like ethanol is not the answer to pollution and shortages of crude oil fuels. We need to develop alternative power sources PLUS alternative transportation vehicles that will fully fill the needs of Americans. Short range electric cars arent the answer for many or most Americans. A 30 mile or even 100 mile range electric car wont get many of us to work and back and as of now, no one is investing money to put in charging stations at the work place for recharging. Claims of hybrid cars like Chevy Volt who say "I havent been to a gas station in months" are just mis-informing potential customers. They may not be paying for gas, but they are likely paying more for the electricity than they would for the gas to carry them the same distances.
Mass transport works for many cities like NY and London with subways but most cities havent invested in this and trying to get places like Houston to put in a subway system would be impossible mostly due to water table and MONEY so its back to above ground rail systems which are very limited in travel corridors so customer would still need cars to just get to the train station. The cheapest alternative now is to develop personal vehicles that will get us at least 200 mile range and not cost $100K and meanwhile look at the European car models. Diesel and reformulated natural gas to liquid fuel (same as #2 diesel) can be used for decades yet as fuel. We just need to make them burn a bit cleaner and not just add scrubbers like the DEF which is a crock of BS. We in the USA are shortly coming to a crossroad as to where we have to go. We cant indefinetly continue to use 5-8 liter engines in our cars and trucks especially those who just use them for personal transport. In the last 10 years it seems manufacturers are going bigger and bigger. When was it, in the 80's with supposedly fuel shortages that they came out with smaller engines and then in a few years they gradually crept back up to the 350 cubic inch and larger and up to 475-600 or more HP in some luxury cars. That is just plain ridiculous.

 

[DEWFPO]

Fuel injected engines, especially those on less sophisticated engines like ATV's, snow machines etc.... only use fuel curves based on rpm, throttle position and manifold pressure (altitude). The fuel injector is open a set amount of time based on the above. They have no way of knowing whether you have E0. E10 E15 or E85 in the tank. They cannot adjust for lower btu fuels unless they have some sort of sensor like a Flex-Fueled car or truck. So, in general.... fuel injected small engines DO NOT adjust for the BTU content of the fuel automatically. So an engine of this type will produce less power on E10 than on E0, and so on.

DEWFPO

 

[Patches]

Partially accurate; my new BRP, Rotax equipped sled has several sensors, one of which is a "knock sensor". When pre-ignition is detected, the ECU pulls timing from the engine, preventing it from destroying itself and allowing it to operate(at reduced power and efficiency) until the cause of the detonation is found and corrected [hopefully]