Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

[IslandTractor]

The Chevy Bolt Is the Ugly Car of the (Very Near) Future - Bloomberg

Chevrolet loses $ 9k per Bolt. Interesting.

They make it up with volume.:thumbsup:

 

[houstonscott]

They make it up with volume.:thumbsup:

It's truly a $40k + car in a market that starts at $14k. Huh.

 

[houstonscott]

They make it up with volume.:thumbsup:

You don't make up anything, it's a loser to make, it's a risky investment for Chevrolet.

 

[IslandTractor]

You don't make up anything, it's a loser to make, it's a risky investment for Chevrolet.

It was a joke. Check your LandCrusher for exhaust leaks.

But, has others have pointed out, electric and electric hybrid are clearly the future of passenger cars so it makes sense for Chevy to invest.

 

[sd455dan]

Just yanking your chain. Agree that diesels don't make much sense unless you absolutely need that much towing capacity on a regular basis. BTW, nice truck, hope you use it for more than commuting.

That is exactly why I am considering a 1st gen Volt in the future,

Starting to get old firing up a 1 ton 4x4 diesel truck to drive 15 miles round trip to town for some groceries...

1 thing I agree with the anti electric crowd is re-sale value. Seems most of the 2011-2014 Volts are selling for 9-14k when 3-6 years earlier they sold for as much as 75% more.

For a buyer now, that is a way to save the massive depreciation they have been subject to.
If in another 5 years gas prices take off- the Volts values will rebound.

I fixed up an old GEO a while back when gas prices hit about $4 a gallon and made some money. And there was a big demand for them at the time, Can't see that not happening with ANY car that is efficient if oil/ gas prices take off again. and imo they will.
People never thought that there would be gas lines in 1973 either.

After looking at (how) the Volt actually works- It just makes sense to me, as a semi retired electronics tech/supervisor, If I could chose a basic block system for the drivetrain, the Volts architecture, layout and logic would be it- extended range plug in with the ability to drive as a regular car for unlimited mileage.
My only major problem with it is being a (compact) car, have really grown fond of intermediate / full size autos.
But am sure i can re-adjust to a small car.

 

[IslandTractor]

That is exactly why I am considering a 1st gen Volt in the future,

Starting to get old firing up a 1 ton 4x4 diesel truck to drive 15 miles round trip to town for some groceries...

1 thing I agree with the anti electric crowd is re-sale value. Seems most of the 2011-2014 Volts are selling for 9-14k when 3-6 years earlier they sold for as much as 75% more.

For a buyer now, that is a way to save the massive depreciation they have been subject to.
If in another 5 years gas prices take off- the Volts values will rebound.

I fixed up an old GEO a while back when gas prices hit about $4 a gallon and made some money. And there was a big demand for them at the time, Can't see that not happening with ANY car that is efficient if oil/ gas prices take off again. and imo they will.
People never thought that there would be gas lines in 1973 either.

After looking at (how) the Volt actually works- It just makes sense to me, as a semi retired electronics tech/supervisor, If I could chose a basic block system for the drivetrain, the Volts architecture, layout and logic would be it- extended range plug in with the ability to drive as a regular car for unlimited mileage.
My only major problem with it is being a (compact) car, have really grown fond of intermediate / full size autos.
But am sure i can re-adjust to a small car.

I agree on resale value and took advantage of it. Paid about $16K for low mileage 2 year old electric/hybrid CMax Energi still on warranty that listed originally for $37K. My wife was so impressed she went out and bought the even fancier version that self parks and paid the same for an even lower mileage 2 year old Energi. Both cars were off lease from a Ford dealer. Cars have been comfortable, fun to drive and, except for cargo space when rear seat is occupied, very practical. I use it mostly for driving around town, often 2-3 miles at a time so the 20 mile battery capacity is fine. I fill up the tank about once a month (10 gallons or less) unless I take off on an interstate trip.

I also hadn't owned a small car since I sold my BMW 2002 but I made the transition pretty quickly. The CMax driving position is higher than something like a Civic so it doesn't feel small. Interior space is also pretty good. I'm 6'5" 230 and am quite comfortable even on long (400mile) drives.

The Volt is also a very nice car. Sportier looking than the midget minivan look of the CMax but it has even less cargo space. Perfect for a commuter vehicle though.

Don't buy one though if you have any concerns that people will think you have small hands for driving anything less than a 400hp machomobile.

 

[California]

Re GM losing money on each Bolt:

The article I linked in Post #353 has some figures on this.

=======
We estimate that GM loses ~7$k per vehicle at the EBIT level, but the contribution margin (selling price less variable production costs) is in positive territory at ~$3k. Based on our component costs forecasts, the EBIT per vehicle can improve to $1.3k (5% EBIT margin) by 2025E, assuming that the lion's share of the cost savings need to be passed on to the consumer in order to reach TCO parity.
=======

EBIT is Earnings Before Interest and Taxes. It's one of a cost accountant's tools to measure profitablilty. (Or stock analyst's). There's no corporate income to pass along to stockholders long term if they can't earn enough to cover Interest and Taxes. EBIT is also an element in forecasting what volume of sales will be needed to make a reasonable profit. This author assumes 5% is reasonable profit.

Contribution Margin: This the actual cost to build one more unit ignoring overhead - Factory construction and improvements, interest, workman's comp, long term pension obligations, real estate taxes, R&D, lobbying, everything the assembly tech on the shop floor doesn't see as the car goes by. A normal range of overhead costs was 100% or more (relative to Direct Labor) on the consultant and engineering contracts I used to analyze, I have no idea what is 'reasonable' or how it is figured in the auto industry. Note that linked article says they did a teardown and found the actual hardware in the car was a lot less expensive than they expected so the estimated Contribution Margin for building each additional Bolt is a positive $3,000 - ignoring overhead that would be spread across anything they chose to build. Also there is $4,000 (present cost) of semiconductor stuff in each Bolt, and there is near universally a steep downward cost curve in that area as volume becomes huge.

TCO parity. TCO is Total Cost of Ownership. Lifetime cost for the customer. Parity is their comparison to what they consider an equivalent ICE car. I'll add here that Bolt is built of stuff that is new, expensive, and likely to be less expensive as volume ramps up. While the comparable ICE car has already had all the extra costs engineered out of it for decades and doesn't have the opportunity for cost savings that exists in new technology.

Also noted is the European version of Bolt is likely to reach large sales volume years sooner than in the US. (So what we see on the road here doesn't reflect GM's investment return for embarking on these).


Yes Bolt is a gamble by GM to get product out there before each unit is profitable. I think abstaining from this market would be a greater gamble.

 

[buickanddeere]

You have either short memory or never lived in an area with large population density. I remember air burning my nose, stinking rivers without any life, millions of acres of dead forests etc. Then governments legislated usage of catalytic converters and fuel efficiency standards followed by clean air and environment protection regulations. I remember people complained why they should pay extra 1000 USD for a thing they don't need (catalytic converter). Governments spend money on many things we "don't need" in example space programs and science in general. The fact is that without space programs we wouldn't have many things we enjoy today. Every mobile phone uses technology originaly developed for satellite communication. Or computers, roboticsm DCS, GPS etc. Well electric cars are one of those things. I predict I will be still living when there will be more electric cars on the road than ICE powered.

Only if forced into the market with quotas, taxes and incentives.

 

[buickanddeere]

Just yanking your chain. Agree that diesels don't make much sense unless you absolutely need that much towing capacity on a regular basis. BTW, nice truck, hope you use it for more than commuting.

It will be trailering pulling tractors, camper, livestock etc..........if I can borrow it from Mrs B&D. Come to think of it, the truck is registered in her name and not mine. How did that happen ? Ordered the SLT package with every option that did not force a change from the bench seat to front buckets and a console.

 

[buickanddeere]

You have either short memory or never lived in an area with large population density. I remember air burning my nose, stinking rivers without any life, millions of acres of dead forests etc. Then governments legislated usage of catalytic converters and fuel efficiency standards followed by clean air and environment protection regulations. I remember people complained why they should pay extra 1000 USD for a thing they don't need (catalytic converter). Governments spend money on many things we "don't need" in example space programs and science in general. The fact is that without space programs we wouldn't have many things we enjoy today. Every mobile phone uses technology originaly developed for satellite communication. Or computers, roboticsm DCS, GPS etc. Well electric cars are one of those things. I predict I will be still living when there will be more electric cars on the road than ICE powered.

Those places that stank in the 1970's from both vehicles and industry that you forgot to mention. Those areas are clean now.