Electric tractor

   / Electric tractor #41  
I had a great experience Thanksgiving day with EV autos. I got to ride in a Tesla S P100D and that changed all my doubts about electric vehicles of ANY kind. Quiet an experience for an ole country boy as myself. I've always been intrigued with electric motors and electric autos and I could see direct drive with the 3 phase motors such as Tesla uses. The Tesla has (2) 3 phase motors, one front and one rear and is 4 wheel drive with traction control. There would be no use for a transmission of any kind using a high tech motor controller such as the Tesla. The batteries and cooling system make the Tesla heavy as mentioned by CincyFlyer 5000 + lbs. I'm not sure how they do the 4 wheel drive but would like to find out what type of differential or whatever apparatus is used.

From a dead stop you'd better push your head back into the head rest before accelerating because it is some more fast. The range doing average driving is somewhere around 300 miles on a charge. I'm not sure how that would relate to a tractor's task but at $130,000 (Tesla's price) I'll never find out. They make lesser expensive models but......

The Farm Track video is fun to watch and dream. :)
 
   / Electric tractor #42  
One cannot properly compare a wood lathe to a metal lathe! You may tap with your metal lathe, and require extremely low speeds. On a wood lathe, if you need extremely low speeds, you'd better balance that big knot or whatever you are turning! Or get a bowl lathe.

I know the difference, but the point was gear monsters win at low end toque. A tesla is comparable HP to a semi ( the tesla is more if my memory on the specs is correct. Any bets on which one puts more toque to the ground? The bet wasn't a race, but a toque wrench on the hub.
 
   / Electric tractor #43  
I had a great experience Thanksgiving day with EV autos. I got to ride in a Tesla S P100D and that changed all my doubts about electric vehicles of ANY kind. Quiet an experience for an ole country boy as myself. I've always been intrigued with electric motors and electric autos and I could see direct drive with the 3 phase motors such as Tesla uses. The Tesla has (2) 3 phase motors, one front and one rear and is 4 wheel drive with traction control. There would be no use for a transmission of any kind using a high tech motor controller such as the Tesla. The batteries and cooling system make the Tesla heavy as mentioned by CincyFlyer 5000 + lbs. I'm not sure how they do the 4 wheel drive but would like to find out what type of differential or whatever apparatus is used.

From a dead stop you'd better push your head back into the head rest before accelerating because it is some more fast. The range doing average driving is somewhere around 300 miles on a charge. I'm not sure how that would relate to a tractor's task but at $130,000 (Tesla's price) I'll never find out. They make lesser expensive models but......

The Farm Track video is fun to watch and dream. :)

They use an open differential that has an electric brake controller to limit wheel slip, along with sub 1ms torque control thanks to the 3-phase motor.

It's pretty darn impressive. I can slam the throttle on our 85D in the rain and doesn't even step out an inch.

I'd love to run an electric tractor, stop & start is basically the bread and butter of an EV as you don't have any idle to worry about and all the torque is down low. No tier IV emissions, no tranny aside from maybe a 4x4 transfer and you can run the PTO completely independently based on if you want to use a second 3-phase motor for it.

20kW battery would probably be fine, and the extra weight is probably a benefit as well.
 
   / Electric tractor #44  
They use an open differential that has an electric brake controller to limit wheel slip, along with sub 1ms torque control thanks to the 3-phase motor.

It's pretty darn impressive. I can slam the throttle on our 85D in the rain and doesn't even step out an inch.

I'd love to run an electric tractor, stop & start is basically the bread and butter of an EV as you don't have any idle to worry about and all the torque is down low. No tier IV emissions, no tranny aside from maybe a 4x4 transfer and you can run the PTO completely independently based on if you want to use a second 3-phase motor for it.

20kW battery would probably be fine, and the extra weight is probably a benefit as well.


Thanks for the infomation. Except for the price I don't see many downsides to an electric tractor. I agree with you I'd like to drive one.

The S model didn't spin a tire either just took off like a rocket but a bit odd not hearing any noise. Rolling at 35MPH then slamming as you said I did feel a slight spin of the tires but hardly noticeable but I wasn't driving either.

Even though I wouldn't need ear protection I still would have on my headset for jamming but I could turn the volume down. Naaa what am I thinking.

Another good point would be no antifreeze, no warm up (which wastes a lot of fuel), no oil changes (messy job), and a host of other good points too many to list.
 
   / Electric tractor #45  
I have not followed the development of EVs other than state of the art golf carts...Textron/EZGO introduced the 3 phase AC electric cart in 2008...
One thing I have learned about EVs is...the larger the diameter of the wheels the less torque you have...more speed but less torque...not sure how that will apply to tractors that usually have large dia. rear wheels?
 
   / Electric tractor #46  
Thanks for the infomation. Except for the price I don't see many downsides to an electric tractor. I agree with you I'd like to drive one.

The S model didn't spin a tire either just took off like a rocket but a bit odd not hearing any noise. Rolling at 35MPH then slamming as you said I did feel a slight spin of the tires but hardly noticeable but I wasn't driving either.

Even though I wouldn't need ear protection I still would have on my headset for jamming but I could turn the volume down. Naaa what am I thinking.

Another good point would be no antifreeze, no warm up (which wastes a lot of fuel), no oil changes (messy job), and a host of other good points too many to list.

Yeah, you still do have a coolant loop(proper thermal management is key to battery life) but oil changes aren't a thing, although you'd still probably have hydraulics to deal with.
 
   / Electric tractor #47  
I know the difference, but the point was gear monsters win at low end toque. A tesla is comparable HP to a semi ( the tesla is more if my memory on the specs is correct. Any bets on which one puts more toque to the ground? The bet wasn't a race, but a toque wrench on the hub.

We had a thread on the Tesla semi a while back before it went off the rails and got shut down(much like I expect this one will given the last 2 EV threads went that direction).

At 80k gross it sounded like an electric based drivetrain was able to put a lot more torque down(if I recall 0-60 in 20s vs 60s). We'll see what it does when they start showing up but but based on the torque curve of 3 phase motors I don't doubt that it will be a torque monster.
 
   / Electric tractor #48  
One thing I have learned about EVs is...the larger the diameter of the wheels the less torque you have...more speed but less torque...not sure how that will apply to tractors that usually have large dia. rear wheels?

There'll be reduction gears between the motor and wheels. Like the final drive in our diesel tractors. We don't need a 155 mph top speed.

I really like pistons, valves etc. but electric makes a lot of sense for tractors.
 
   / Electric tractor #49  
Slightly related information on electric motors:

An article comparing a locomotive's modern computer-controlled AC traction motors to the old style DC motors. A small, lightweight AC locomotive is able to outpull a much larger DC locomotive. Power is from a diesel generator instead of a battery, but it is delivered to the wheels by electric motors.

AC Traction vs DC Traction - Greenville, South Carolina - Republic Locomotive

Bruce
 
   / Electric tractor #50  
Caterpillar has been selling its electric D7E dozed for several years. Granted electric power is generated by its on board 250 HP diesel but with the 480v AC electric system they advertise 35% improved fuel economy vs the D7R power shift mechanical drive. At Cat we blew away the older inefficient electric drive mining trucks with our mechanical drive trucks but electric drive improvements have us now selling both electric and mechanical drive versions. Still diesel engine power generation because of 24/7 operation. Mining would like to get rid of the diesels because of cancer and other health related issues due to diesel emissions collecting in large holes in the earth typical of mining but more is being done on atonomous operation and doing away with drivers to solve the diesel emission health problem.
 
   / Electric tractor #51  
Yeah, you still do have a coolant loop(proper thermal management is key to battery life) but oil changes aren't a thing, although you'd still probably have hydraulics to deal with.

On the S model Tesla I did notice the brake fluid reservoir and fill cap for the disc brake system, hadn't thought about the fluid operated cooling system for the controls and batteries. From outside the auto I did hear something running occasionally and sounded like some kind of fan.
 
   / Electric tractor #52  
Maybe more our scale is a tractor like this: Solar 8N Tractor - YouTube

A way to get around the battery limitation in vehicles is with a fuel powered range extending engine like in the BMW i3 REx, that only works because highway cruising speed uses a small fraction of the total available horsepower. That isn't the case with a tractor that can be using 100% of it's power continuously (Ground work/PTO work). A range extender would only serve to get the tractor back to the charging port in our case.
 
   / Electric tractor #53  
I've got a variable speed wood lathe that used a VFD and a 3 phase motor. The Powermatic has a better torque curve than the Jet, but they neither one make maximum torque at the bottom end RPM. And compared to my geared metal lathe the low end toque is a joke.


Thank You for the real world practical example. I was having problems getting the point across.
 
   / Electric tractor #54  
I had a great experience Thanksgiving day with EV autos. I got to ride in a Tesla S P100D and that changed all my doubts about electric vehicles of ANY kind. Quiet an experience for an ole country boy as myself. I've always been intrigued with electric motors and electric autos and I could see direct drive with the 3 phase motors such as Tesla uses. The Tesla has (2) 3 phase motors, one front and one rear and is 4 wheel drive with traction control. There would be no use for a transmission of any kind using a high tech motor controller such as the Tesla. The batteries and cooling system make the Tesla heavy as mentioned by CincyFlyer 5000 + lbs. I'm not sure how they do the 4 wheel drive but would like to find out what type of differential or whatever apparatus is used.

From a dead stop you'd better push your head back into the head rest before accelerating because it is some more fast. The range doing average driving is somewhere around 300 miles on a charge. I'm not sure how that would relate to a tractor's task but at $130,000 (Tesla's price) I'll never find out. They make lesser expensive models but......

The Farm Track video is fun to watch and dream. :)

It is a light highway vehicle, it ain't no off road farm tractor .
 
   / Electric tractor #55  
Slightly related information on electric motors:

An article comparing a locomotive's modern computer-controlled AC traction motors to the old style DC motors. A small, lightweight AC locomotive is able to outpull a much larger DC locomotive. Power is from a diesel generator instead of a battery, but it is delivered to the wheels by electric motors.

AC Traction vs DC Traction - Greenville, South Carolina - Republic Locomotive

Bruce

An AC induction motor has a wider rom range as there are no slip rings and no commutator rings and brushes. The solid rotor AC rotor can run up to much higher rpms than the DC rotor which allows a higher gear reduction ratio for starting heavy loads rolling. Try to operate a DC motor with a commutator with that high of reduction ratio up to cruise speed and it will throw the copper bars out of the slots.
 
   / Electric tractor #56  
I would buy one, but only if it has a diesel engine to charge the batteries!

Stop and think about this one. The rail industry, which is the "prime mover," relies on diesel-electric. I totally believe in this. I feel that batteries are an over-complication, especially at this point (though all the folks fishing for capital $$s want you to believe otherwise), and that it would be better to go toward this kind of model (than straight to a full EV type system). I really do like the ability to drive individual wheels with individual motors. Unfortunately folks are all set that fossil fuels, and especially diesel, need to be nixed: I realize ALL the arguments here; I have spent years looking at all of it and feel that if anything we're going to go backwards- we're going to actually end up going dirtier due to all the things I said in my earlier posts- people are heavily in debt; I live in an area with lots of trees and I can see the day in which people are going to ravage them in order to heat their homes (I use wood heat, though I do so "sustainably"). I don't see an ability to truly engage economies of scale such that EV is going to become the world's standard: I wish that it could have been another way, and it might have been had we known way back when what we know today, but here were are.

Diesel is, and will continue to be, what makes the world "work." (fossil fuels, diesel fuels, will be sufficient enough to carry us as we start going down the growth curve) Yes, I am biased (my username will support this fact), but I am biased because I have done a LOT of research and decided upon the path that I think we are truly set on (not what I necessarily "want").
 
   / Electric tractor #57  
Stop and think about this one. The rail industry, which is the "prime mover," relies on diesel-electric. I totally believe in this. I feel that batteries are an over-complication, especially at this point (though all the folks fishing for capital $$s want you to believe otherwise), and that it would be better to go toward this kind of model (than straight to a full EV type system). I really do like the ability to drive individual wheels with individual motors. Unfortunately folks are all set that fossil fuels, and especially diesel, need to be nixed: I realize ALL the arguments here; I have spent years looking at all of it and feel that if anything we're going to go backwards- we're going to actually end up going dirtier due to all the things I said in my earlier posts- people are heavily in debt; I live in an area with lots of trees and I can see the day in which people are going to ravage them in order to heat their homes (I use wood heat, though I do so "sustainably"). I don't see an ability to truly engage economies of scale such that EV is going to become the world's standard: I wish that it could have been another way, and it might have been had we known way back when what we know today, but here were are.

Diesel is, and will continue to be, what makes the world "work." (fossil fuels, diesel fuels, will be sufficient enough to carry us as we start going down the growth curve) Yes, I am biased (my username will support this fact), but I am biased because I have done a LOT of research and decided upon the path that I think we are truly set on (not what I necessarily "want").

I agree with you that this won't be an overnight change or anytime in the near future but I believe at some point it will change. Just look at the piston engine. It's a great design and was invented a long time ago, now that don't make it obsolete by any means but things have changed since its invention. The train started as piston propelled using steam now its electric/diesel. Took a while to change but it did. Jet engines were invented and propel planes and such instead of just piston engines. The reason behind the stated examples were probably derived from economics as you mentioned so along the way this change could happen for the same reason.

I disagree with you when you said "Diesel is, and will continue to be, what makes the world "work" ". Wood fired boilers were replaced by coal fired boilers on train engines and now both are replaced by diesel running electric and now the studies are turning more toward electric.

What I'm thinking is the piston engine will someday be obsolete and replaced with something ?? more efficient or maybe out of better resources. I would also think anyone reading my opinion won't be around to see it.
 
   / Electric tractor #58  
At some point technology will stop/fail. Anyone who thinks there is no end possible missed that this is a finite planet and misses that the entire economic premise which we've been operating under has disregarded this fundamental (belief that there can be perpetual growth on a finite planet fails even the most simplest tests of logic).

Most people here have ZERO clue about what life in the majority of the world is like. It's really easy to "imagine" things outside of reality. As noted, economies of scale is essential for the wide-scale pushing out of any product. Take a look around on the CIA's world info web site and you'll see the warning signs coming via demographics. Look around you, here in the "land of plenty" and see how in-debt the young are today and ask how that is going to turn around (as demographics will continue to, for several decades, show an aging population). I once argued the point that it was rather meaningless to provide some "alternate" transportation solution when there aren't jobs at the end of that pipe (roadway, rail line etc.). My wife is from the Philippines. They're talking about eliminating their diesel jeepneys and such. That their current paradigm is a total environmental disaster is without question, but when people can barely afford transportation fares NOW how can they afford what can ONLY be higher fares/fees with new transportation bits? Keep in mind that all the supporting pieces, folks working on existing equipment, is likely going to be significantly eroded, which removes demand from the newer tech transportation- economies of scale [in the growth direction] will be further challenged. This is NOT a "build it and they will come" deal; the demand, though it could exist, does not appear to be able to support the supply.

As I believe in a finite planet it also goes that I believe that all resources are limited (even the sun will eventually die; though this will never likely be anything humans will need to worry about). Fossil fuels, for any meaningful extractive purposes, WILL reach their crescendo. With that in mind I absolutely DO wish that we would have something akin to a sustainable energy source; but, what "I" wish is subject to the realities of our world.

The mention of shifting energy carriers (energy paradigm) has occurred during times in which there were far fewer humans on the planet. Both coal and oil ramped up with world population between about 1.5 billion and 2 billion. Today we're at 7.5+ billion. If you look at the population growth curve you'll see that these energy sources absolutely were responsible for the incredible growth. Introduce another new energy source that supersedes oil and our population will, if history is any guide, shoot up more.

The difference that one needs to consider is that "electricity" is more of a transport mechanism that an energy source. Coal and oil are both energy transports and energy sources. The "convenience" cannot be overlooked.

Energy alone does little. The equation to "create" is: energy + materials + ideas = creation/end product. Land, minerals, water and air, all are currently massively stressed. While a better means of utilizing energy can and should occur it will still be limited to the available of the other parts of the creation/growth equation.

I once was extremely optimistic about hot fusion. Of anything, I believe, it has more potential than anything else. Over time I realized that, as noted in my previous paragraph, that there was more to the equation than just energy: though, as I knew, with hot fusion there is the possibility of precision reclamation/recycling, which would help address the issue of minerals (recovery), w/o providing, though, for the creation of MORE. NOTE: yes, "hot fusion" exists in the form of the sun :)

Lastly, and perhaps this is why hot fusion (or even cold, which I was always highly doubtful over, feeling that it was a horrible distraction from hot fusion) could never be available, is that the powers that be wouldn't be the "powers that be" if everyone had the power of fusion. How much truth exists here is hard to say other than human nature has lots of history behind it.

I can both believe that the above is what WILL be AND that I think EV stuff is cool. I am unwilling, however, to believe that EV is going to be any salvation (and I actually think that it mostly serves to distract from the disconcerting conditions that exist with our other pieces of the creation/growth equation).
 

Tractor & Equipment Auctions

8ft Flatbed Truck Body with Axle (A55851)
8ft Flatbed Truck...
2023 NEW HOLLAND WAGON TONGUE AND LOADING CHUTE FOR NEW HOLLAND SQUARE BALERS (A55315)
2023 NEW HOLLAND...
2014 Club Car Carryall 295 4x4 Utility Cart (A59228)
2014 Club Car...
DOOSAN G25KW GENERATOR (A55745)
DOOSAN G25KW...
2023 Bobcat E60 (A53317)
2023 Bobcat E60...
2009 CHEVROLET C8500 DUMP TRUCK (A59823)
2009 CHEVROLET...
 
Top