Electrical hazard???

[Mike058]

Hey Rod,
I'm not an electrician either and I only found one reference in the NEC 2005 that mentions GFCI in sumps. That's 620.85 and it's talking about elevators, escalators and moving walkways. It says "A single receptacle supplying a permanently installed sump pump shall not require ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection." Maybe someone was thinking of that when they wired the thing up. But 210.8 is where we're told where GFCI's are required. And that's most everywhere outside and in unfinished parts of basements. The only exceptions listed are where an outlet is not readily accessible. Like a roof mounted one for roof heating tape, ceiling mounted inside for a garage door opener or behind an appliance that has dedicated space (like a freezer or refrigerator). Or, I suppose, one in a sump for a sump pump.

I'm with you. Have that outlet in the sump moved high enough where it can't get soaked. Then it needs a cover for a damp or wet location (depending on how much weather exposure there is). Being a sump pump, if it goes off because of a nuisance trip, a lot of damage could occur. Instead of a GFCI outlet, maybe a switch, with a proper cover for damp location could be located within sight of the sump, labeled prominently what it's for, so the power could be shut off if the pump does fail and water starts to rise out of the sump? I'd get a single outlet instead of the cheaper and much more readily available duplex kind so someone wouldn't be tempted to use the outlet for something else, since it isn't GFCI protected.

 

[radioman]

I am a little confused. Your freind has a METAL grate in front of the steps to the pit ? or behind and under the steps. ? The plug outlet gets wet often ?! there must be alot of corrsion in the plug already. This is a fire hazard for sure. what happens if the pit overflows and power is still on ? SHUDDER! you are right to be concerned. I would get the GFCI test plug and put it in the questionable outlet. If it doesnt trip- means there isnt another plug in house somewhere tied into that sump outlet or breaker with GFCI built in.

I agree with others accessment, move outlout out of water harms way and use gfci outlet.

 

[Rodmo1]

Basically picture poured concrete stairs in an "L" shape going down to the basement. At the bottom there is a 3'x3' landing. When the stairs were poured the contractor formed up a pit that is part of the bottom landing and covered by a steel grate right in front of the door. These stairs were an add on and not part of the original house plans. Maybe later this week I can put up a photo if I make it out there. The other issue as far as rerouting the wiring is the existing circuit runs through conduit in the concrete where it comes into the sump pit. I would have to add a whole new circuit or find where the old one originates and splice in.

Rod M.

 

[JB4310]

Does the house have a sump pump, If the house basement has a sump pump then most likely could completely eliminate the one in the stairwell, even if there's no pump, as long as there's some type of interior footing drain system a simple tie in would handle the water from the stairwell.

JB.

 

[Rodmo1]

I believe the house has an inside pump, however, it is at the other end of the house. Directly inside this door is a carpeted floor with paneled walls.

 

[Pops15]

That's the scariest/stupidest/most dangerous sump pump receptacle set up I've ever heard of.
I wonder how many others the contractor did that way? How did it ever pass inspection?

 

[JB4310]

I believe the house has an inside pump, however, it is at the other end of the house. Directly inside this door is a carpeted floor with paneled walls.

Well we never advise bringing more water into the inside system, so unless there's a roof over the stairwell, I would leave the 2nd pump there. But typically around here there's a footing drain just inside the door (under the floor) that we tie into, any water would be carried to the inside pump no mater where located, so if it was a covered stairwell it wouldn't be much more water added to the existing system.

If it's an uncovered stairwell, then better to try and control as much as possible with a pump there, but would want a threshold drain in case of pump failure. When ever a house has to have 2 pumps we try and tie them in to each other via sub slab piping so they can back-up each other, in other words if one pump failed the water wouldn't overflow from the pit and flow across the floor looking for the other pit.
In our basement drainage line of work, the Threshold Drain is the bread and butter for sure.

JB

 

[Rodmo1]

I am guessing the contractor they had may have been a "buddy". I will give him credit though...The stairs and entrance to the basement are really nice and structurally seem very well done. Pretty sure electric isnt his strong point though. I am calling my friend this afternoon to see how the pump handled yesterdays rain and also advise him on the safety issues. I think I will encourage him to run it off of an extension cord for the time being. It seems like a catch 22 for me...leave it be since I didnt design it and risk my buddies safety or change it to GFCI and risk property damage when the safety trips causing flooding of the house.

 

[radioman]

tell your buddy to go to the store and pick up the gfci built in extension cord. Its better then what he got now until he can fix it permanantly.

 

[chipsndust]

tell your buddy to go to the store and pick up the gfci built in extension cord. Its better then what he got now until he can fix it permanantly.

Also, make sure the wire gauge of the extension cord is at least 14AWG, preferably 12AWG. Nearly all the "cheap" extension cords are 18AWG. I would guess that is why the pump plug burned; it was plugged into a long, 18AWG extension cord, which is under rated for the amperage.