Elevation = rough start up..?

sea2summit

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etpm is right; that is the diesel physics. A diesel gets to its ignition temperature by adiabatic compression of air to bring it to a high temperature, after which fuel is injected that then burns with the oxygen. Less air in = lower compression = lower temperature, so no ignition or bad irregular burning, which makes the typical diesel knocking sound until the engine is warm.
Don’t go messing logic with my math :oops:

You are correct, I know better than that.
 

sea2summit

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Interesting reading glow plug times of more than 5 seconds. 15 Seconds? Sat with my stop watch and timed out 15 seconds. I have never held the glow plugs on for more than 5 seconds. 1200 feet, very small 1 liter engine and garage rarely gets below freezing. Wonder if excessive use of glow plugs is in anyway harmful to the engine? What are the recommended glow plug times for larger tractors?
Glow plugs continue to stay hot I believe, I don’t think the igniting diesel burns cooler than they are?
 

PILOON

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I have needed to heat my plugs a few times in cold weather, often twice and occasionally 3 X.
My timer clack's B4 re setting so I know when to re glow. But then I have always started.
Generally I re glow if my CUT wont fire up after about 10 or so RPM's.
Now my CUT is a '58 with 1800 hrs and still doing all that I ask of it.
My take is cold starting was not then what it is today and so far nothing has hurt my CUt from my procedures.
One thing I do is have an intelligent battery tender permanently attached so I always have a full charge.
 

SPYDERLK

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I have needed to heat my plugs a few times in cold weather, often twice and occasionally 3 X.
My timer clack's B4 re setting so I know when to re glow. But then I have always started.
Generally I re glow if my CUT wont fire up after about 10 or so RPM's.
Now my CUT is a '58 with 1800 hrs and still doing all that I ask of it.
My take is cold starting was not then what it is today and so far nothing has hurt my CUt from my procedures.

[[ One thing I do is have an intelligent battery tender permanently attached so I always have a full charge. ]]

Good cranking speed is a plus with cold cylinder walls!
 
  
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OP
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Gnome

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Figured out how to upload video to this forum. Started my LS mid day yesterday, temperature about 48˙, elevation 3,000', 20 seconds on the glow plugs. This tractor never started this rough with so much smoke when at sea level at similar temperatures. But, it does smooth out. Just rougher than a cob at first light....

 

CobyRupert

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I think the white smoke means fuel is not being burnt properly. But why?
It is smoke, and not vapor, not anti-freeze right? No sweet smell and no coolant loss from reservoir tank?
So why is fuel not burning? Too much fuel? Is this a common rail injection system? Bad injector? Or does a cylinder have low compression that doesn’t ignite fuel at initial low temps?
 

Cameron Smith

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You have a cylinder that is not firing until the others ARE and helping it catch up. I would first check my injectors and the valve settings. With such low hours, I doubt that compression is the problem.
 

the old grind

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Bad injector as mentioned wouldn't surprise me. An uneven vs conical spray pattern might be less apparent at op temp than when starting. How's o'all power once it's warmed up?
 

DieselBound

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How long to operate GPs depends on what the manufacturer says!

My cars (VW TDIs), truck (12v Cummins) and Kioti automatically controls how long the GPs (or in the case of the Cummins, heater grid) is energized to full. I know that in my VWs the GPs will continue to glow post ignition to help smoothen out things; not sure of the others.

My B7800 is purely mechanically operated. I don't remember the recommended time for operating the GPs on it; I just keep keying it until it starts up. On my generator (alsways seem to have a digital copy of its manuals around me), which is an early 90s Onan with a Kubota engine, the Operator's Manual says 10 to 30 seconds. Cycle time pretty much depends on how much current the GPs are pulling (and, of course, the rating on the wiring!).

Lack of combustion heat leads to the harder starts. More heat is required. Either coolant heater or more GP function. If this were my issue I'd be double-checking the GPs before anything else; and, I'd look at what the manual says for how long one can operate the GPs (and operate on the longer side). Every diesel is going to be a bit rough when firing up when its cold: my Kioti is really great at starting and running, but even it will be a bit less so just after a first start in the cold [and I'm not really in all that cold of a climate]). And as has also been noted, oil viscosity can also affect things: you want the fasted spin of the crank as you can get; oil rated for lower temps will provide that. Oh, and that also brings up the notion of the state of one's starter! I've pulled, cleaned and lubed many starters and that will go a long way to ensuring they operate as best as possible: ones operating in a clutched environment are susceptible to clutch dust and get a bit stiff. Good battery, good starter, good GPs and ample GP operation is one's best bet.

Lastly, weak injection pumps, bad fuel lines/filter connections and or injectors will also make starting tougher. But this starts getting away from the low-hanging fruit stuff!
 
  
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Gnome

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Bad injector as mentioned wouldn't surprise me. An uneven vs conical spray pattern might be less apparent at op temp than when starting. How's o'all power once it's warmed up?
Power and function is all normal and good once warmed up. Gonna check ejectors when I get a chance in a couple weeks.
 
   #61  

priberc

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In my truck with Cummins diesel, I used to have to plug in the block heater overnight when temps fall below 10 degrees. After switching to Rotella T6 synthetic oil, I haven’t yet had to use the block heater to start the truck.
After changing from 0/40 in the winter to 15/40 in the summer Now I use 5w/40 T6 oil year round in the tractor and the 12 valve. Check out the temp ranges recommended by Shell. Fast start up oil pressure [though not immediate like 0/40] even at -30c [-20F] and rated for use up to 48c [120F] IMO no other oil is needed
 
   #62  

DieselBound

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After changing from 0/40 in the winter to 15/40 in the summer Now I use 5w/40 T6 oil year round in the tractor and the 12 valve. Check out the temp ranges recommended by Shell. Fast start up oil pressure [though not immediate like 0/40] even at -30c [-20F] and rated for use up to 48c [120F] IMO no other oil is needed
Should have been able to use 0w-40 all year round as well. Perhaps the issue was cost?

I am sure glad that I don't live anywhere where it drops to -20F!
 
   #63  

priberc

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Should have been able to use 0w-40 all year round as well. Perhaps the issue was cost?

I am sure glad that I don't live anywhere where it drops to -20F!
You are right even "back in the day"I was told that 0/40 can be used year round. I just doubted it to start with... using 5/40 is for peace of mind more than anything really. In my original 12 valve I could see a pressure drop during the summer months using 0/40. not noticing a pressure drop from winter to summer with 5/40
 
   #64  

DieselBound

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0w end of things is irrelevant for warmer temps. It's the 40w that matters for warmer temps.

These folks do independent testing of oil (off of the shelf!):
https://pqia.org/

No testing on 0w-40, but there are for other viscosities. Perhaps the difference is with the brands? And, oil changed when going to CK-spec.
 
   #65  

ROUSTABOUT

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I have always used block heaters that go in a freeze plug hole. Used two. Makes life easier on the diesel engine. Cranking cold is where the most wear happens.
 

mslisaj

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I'm gonna say it's a temperature issue. When it gets below 35 degrees the little engine on my little MT125 seems to want to jump out of the frame on a cold start up. 40 and above it's a nicer machine. I've done the 20 second glow plug routine and it makes a difference. I live at 4100 feet and have never had the machine anywhere else. But it always starts easily just has to run for about 90 seconds before it smooths out. Just my two cents worth on my 3 year old machine.
 
 
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