Engine Damage Caused By Ethanol Gasoline!?

[sixdogs]

Leaded gasoline was available well into the early 1990's

I think you can still get it at airports.

 

[GManBart]

I think you can still get it at airports.

Most airports won't sell it to you unless you have an aircraft tail number to give them. They don't want to get in trouble for selling it without collecting the appropriate taxes.

 

[slow84ta]

Yeah ethanol gas has been around for years!

 

[Jay4200]

Thoughts On Ethanol Anyone?

Ethanol has 65% the energy as gas, so you'll lose 1/3 the fuel economy (gallon for gallon) - You would thus expect to lose ~6.5% mileage running E10. Also, in a carburetor, you have to jet that same 6.5% richer to compensate. Those who don't run lean - half the people I know that run snowmobiles blew them up the first year E10 became mandatory. Worse of all, the shelf life of E10 is only 3-4 weeks, at which point it begins to oxidize, turn yellow, and smell like pee. Its horrible, and I think the US public should SUE the federal government for all of the damage done to small engines caused by the mandatory use of the crap.

 

[KennyG]

There are a lot of numbers out there and the resultant energy in the fuel isn't the direct result of the ratio it's mixed in but E10 is supposed to have only about a 4% reduction in energy (and mileage) relative to regular gasoline. People also lose sight of the fact that premium gasoline actually has less energy than regular. That's why it's resistant to pre-ignition and allows more compression/boost and latitude on timing. An engine that can be adjusted for premium may not lose gas mileage using premium because of the increased engine efficiency, but in the absence of timing and boost adjustments, the gas mileage will drop slightly going to premium fuel.

I've worried about ethanol but over the years I can't say I've seen any problems with multiple small engines.

 

[pat32rf]

I have an electric trolling motor and a tractor powered wood splitter just because I was so fed up with small engines that wouldn't run. Since I started buying High Test things have been much better..and up here our gas is $1.19/ liter or about $4.50 Canadian per American gallon.

 

[ST98]

This is odd and I don't know the answer. Only ethanol has been available in our area for 15 years or more. we have two cars, 5 - 4 stroke small engines and 6 - 2 stroke small engines. I have never had any problem that I could attribute to ethanol with any of them and one is a 60+ year old Wisconsin AKN which often sits for prolonged times. I do not drain, use any kind of stabilizer nor concern myself with shelf life with engines and gas cans sitting from one season to the next. Only time I ever had a problem is when I became concerned after reading horror stories on forums, used some Stabil which I didn't realize the shelf life had expired on (My fault) then I really had a mess, that was 6 - 7 years ago, went back to not using anything. No problem. I also work on small engines and occasionally come across a sticking valve which MAY have resulted from ethanol.

Walt Conner

I'm with Walt. We have wildfire suppression equipment both 4 stroke honda and brigs pumps and 2 stroke stihl brush saws, backpack leaf blowers and chainsaws. They receive a lot of long operation abuse for short periods of the year. They may sit on a shelf for 8 months along with the fuel. No issues for 12 years.

 

[ruffdog]

Oxygenates have been used in large cities for some time. Many areas used Ethers (like MTBE's) that are nasty chemicals. Now, alcohol is being used in its place. Sure, it's not perfect, but it is much better(safer) than the MTBE's. True, you will get 3-4% less fuel economy with E10 instead of E0. We can get E0 in 87-91 octane here. I agree that the pictures that the OP had in the first post is a bunch of unrelated conditions being used to get people excited. Are these articles being put out by the MTBE lobbyists? If I can get pure gas, I do.

 

[jack707]

I had to bring my trail mower to get fixed and was talking to this man who told me to stay away from Ethanol blended gas.! .Before I use to buy 86 gas now I buy premium and the chain saw and mower seem to run a lot better now.Also small repair shops wont warranty more then 30 day because of ETHANOL

 

[bumperm]

In most of the USA, premium has ethanol too. Unleaded fuel is available in a few areas of the country, often at marinas as ethanol damages polyester resin used in many boat fuel tanks.

There's a simple test to determine ethanol content. Best to use a cylindrical container like a test tube, but most any clear gas compatible container will work. Add a small amount of water to the container - if using a test tube, about 1/10th container capacity. Mark or note water level. Add about 9/10ths (i.e. almost fill container) with gasoline to be tested. Shake and then let settle. In a minute or two, if there's ethanol or other alcohols present, the water level will rise. This is due to the ethanol having a greater affinity to water so it comes out of suspension in the fuel and bonds with the water molecules instead.

It's true that 100LL aviation fuel will store for longer periods that auto gas, however the lead will ruin the catalytic converter in engines so equipped.

Aside from the presences of ethanol, using premium fuel in a lower compression engine designed for regular gas doesn't net any performance advantage.

Using ethanol blended regular gas, I get a full 10% less gas mileage in my Ford E450 RV than with non-ethanol fuel.

Ethanol sucks and is a huge consumer rip-off.

 

[k0ua]

In most of the USA, premium has ethanol too.

then why do most of the pumps in my part of the world are marked "no Ethanol" on the premium button? And there are a few stations in Ar. that are marked "No Ethanol" on the 87 octane fuel also. But they are rare. Are they lying to us about the lack of ethanol in the premium?

 

[prs]

Because Branson, MO is not "most of the USA". All of the pumps here in WV, eastern KY and Western VA are marked as being possibly drunk up to 10%. Sometimes the gas is not drunk, but its rare here. Count your lucky stars that you can avoid the rip-off.

prs

 

[murphy1244]

Because Branson, MO is not "most of the USA". All of the pumps here in WV, eastern KY and Western VA are marked as being possibly drunk up to 10%. Sometimes the gas is not drunk, but its rare here. Count your lucky stars that you can avoid the rip-off.

prs

Same here. I have to drive 35 miles to get the "Good Gas". 90 octane

 

[k0ua]

Same here. I have to drive 35 miles to get the "Good Gas". 90 octane

Our premium is 91 everywhere around here.

 

[murphy1244]

Our premium is 91 everywhere around here.

Ours is 93 here

 

[prs]

Murph, the thing about octane ratings as offered in different USA locations, that the higher your local altitude, the lower the listed octane ratings will be. Ohio should be, in general, about the same as sea level to 1k feet.

prs

 

[murphy1244]

My point is we have a varying octane levels for non ethanol gas here not just high test.

 

[murphy1244]

Murph, the thing about octane ratings as offered in different USA locations, that the higher your local altitude, the lower the listed octane ratings will be. Ohio should be, in general, about the same as sea level to 1k feet.

prs

I see tennessee has 93 octane also.Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

Colorado has 112 Wow!!!!!Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada

 

[mo1]

Ethanol actually is an excellent fuel. The problems that are described above are from people putting it in engines that are not compatible with it. You don't complain that your chainsaw is ruined when you put diesel fuel or kerosene in the tank, why would you expect ethanol to do anything different?

There is one big, huge advantage to ethanol that nobody ever seems to talk about, which is that pure ethanol's octane rating is 100 for NA engines and estimated to be more like 115 for forced aspiration applications. This high octane is why just 10% of it increases the octane of gasoline 2-2.5 points and one reason why most gasoline has ethanol in it (most places do not have an ethanol mandate.) Burning E85 which has an octane right around 100 in a typical flex-fuel engine that can also run on 87 octane swill doesn't do the fuel justice. Ethanol would have a much better rep if higher blends like E30 (about 94-95 octane) or E85 became widespread enough that engines were actually designed to use that fuel.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

I'm with Walt. We have wildfire suppression equipment both 4 stroke honda and brigs pumps and 2 stroke stihl brush saws, backpack leaf blowers and chainsaws. They receive a lot of long operation abuse for short periods of the year. They may sit on a shelf for 8 months along with the fuel. No issues for 12 years.

Around here all the fire pump gas is clear non ethanol premium, saw gas and Mark 3 gas is clear mixed, no ethanol.

The road diesel is going to B20 but the state is forgiving the state tax to sell the biodiesel otherwise it is too much and the off road and PUC diesel is B5 because the loggers will not put up with the crap.

David