RickB
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- Joined
- Sep 18, 2000
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- Up the road from Dollar General WNC
- Tractor
- Just a Scag
RickB said:
My original post, 6/22/08.
Glad it's finally sorted out.
engine dying again!!
- Thread starter WTA
- Start date
- Views: 11959
My original post, 6/22/08.
Glad it's finally sorted out.
Well, It acted up a little bit again. I just went and replaced both suction side hoses this time. It's running stronger than ever and finished up my mowing without a problem. SInce this always seems to come again right when I think I've got it I'll wait a few days again and report back if it's cured.
Well, after my last post where I was too mad to think straight because it died again on me, the dealer came and got it.
They had it a week this time. I sent along a typed letter outlining everything they have done, I have done and also a list of things the mechanic fouled up when it was in the last time. They fixed all of that but weren't happy about it I could tell. They also threw a new lift pump on it. The dealer painted over all the nuts and bolts they had to remove also and made the implication to me that it was my fault this thing wasn't running. I was told if I break any of the paint seals that the warranty will be voided.
If they could figure it out I wouldn't have to be working on it in the middle of the night just to keep the engine running while I'm baling hay and a storm is coming.
In my letter to them I nicely asked that the manager personally inspect it and make darn sure it was running properly and the parts their shop broke were all fixed properly before calling me to say it's good to go again.
They delivered it early this morning finally. Friday morning. It sounded great coming off the trailer. All the broken parts were replaced as I requested and things seemed fine to me. SInce I was on my way out on an errand when the driver was here I just parked it in the driveway till we got back.
After I got home I got in, turned the key, drove it to where my big shredder was parked, hooked it all up and started out across my field to mow the weeds that are way out of control now thanks to this tractor and it did it again! It blew a huge puff of white smoke, bogged down hard and died. I was so mad I can't even put it into words.
I Started it back up with some difficulty because I was told not to touch any of the parts they painted, Bleed screw included, and moved it out of the way of the gate it died in front of. It died real fast this time but at least I was able to move it.
Let's see, two months, two months of lost work and profits from my farm, refusal to give me a loaner while everyone sits around scratching their heads, inability to fix it with two times in the shop and three visits to the farm, parts broken by the mechanic that he obviously didn't care enough to tell anyone about, hydraulic fittings left loose that completely ruined one crop of alfalfa. I'm about done with this crap. They are coming out to get it again right now. I talked with Top service on the phone again and she had me on hold so much I just hung up. I had asked for a loaner, explaining that I'm losing my butt on the farm thanks to all of this and all I got was excuses. I told them I can not send it back to this shop again and I want them to come get it and take it to another shop. Perfectly reasonable I thought but I was told no to that also. That's great service I think. I was mad on the phone but not out of line and reasonably calm.
All I can say is I'm not happy right now. I don't know what I'm going to do with the farm since I can't get a loaner. It's on it's way back to the shop again now and I have weeds to kill right now or else I lose another crop. People buying horse hay do not want mostly weeds. They want no weeds! It should have been sprayed a week ago when they were a couple inches tall, not now when they are three feet tall! but of course the tractor was in the shop again.
It really sounds like they are trying to find a way out and blame this on me but the service manager did tell me a factory rep is coming out this time. I'm sure my rapidly growing weeds out in the field are happy knowing they have another hold on their death sentence. My hay is due to cut in two weeks too.
I guess I'll get out my wide brimmed hat and the sea bag and get to hand picking. AGAIN! It's all I can do now. This whole deal is probably on of the biggest disappointments of my life. I thought I was buying the best tractor brand made but now I'm about to be forced out of the farming business by it. My payment on it is due in a couple weeks too. Isn't that nice.
Oh, my lawyer laughed at this one, I wrote in my letter to them about that hydraulic fitting they left loose that puked all over my alfalfa. I also wrote that I FIXED IT in the field. The service manager told my wife yesterday that he checked it and it wasn't loose.
NO crap. I FIXED IT!
They had it a week this time. I sent along a typed letter outlining everything they have done, I have done and also a list of things the mechanic fouled up when it was in the last time. They fixed all of that but weren't happy about it I could tell. They also threw a new lift pump on it. The dealer painted over all the nuts and bolts they had to remove also and made the implication to me that it was my fault this thing wasn't running. I was told if I break any of the paint seals that the warranty will be voided.
If they could figure it out I wouldn't have to be working on it in the middle of the night just to keep the engine running while I'm baling hay and a storm is coming.
In my letter to them I nicely asked that the manager personally inspect it and make darn sure it was running properly and the parts their shop broke were all fixed properly before calling me to say it's good to go again.
They delivered it early this morning finally. Friday morning. It sounded great coming off the trailer. All the broken parts were replaced as I requested and things seemed fine to me. SInce I was on my way out on an errand when the driver was here I just parked it in the driveway till we got back.
After I got home I got in, turned the key, drove it to where my big shredder was parked, hooked it all up and started out across my field to mow the weeds that are way out of control now thanks to this tractor and it did it again! It blew a huge puff of white smoke, bogged down hard and died. I was so mad I can't even put it into words.
I Started it back up with some difficulty because I was told not to touch any of the parts they painted, Bleed screw included, and moved it out of the way of the gate it died in front of. It died real fast this time but at least I was able to move it.
Let's see, two months, two months of lost work and profits from my farm, refusal to give me a loaner while everyone sits around scratching their heads, inability to fix it with two times in the shop and three visits to the farm, parts broken by the mechanic that he obviously didn't care enough to tell anyone about, hydraulic fittings left loose that completely ruined one crop of alfalfa. I'm about done with this crap. They are coming out to get it again right now. I talked with Top service on the phone again and she had me on hold so much I just hung up. I had asked for a loaner, explaining that I'm losing my butt on the farm thanks to all of this and all I got was excuses. I told them I can not send it back to this shop again and I want them to come get it and take it to another shop. Perfectly reasonable I thought but I was told no to that also. That's great service I think. I was mad on the phone but not out of line and reasonably calm.
All I can say is I'm not happy right now. I don't know what I'm going to do with the farm since I can't get a loaner. It's on it's way back to the shop again now and I have weeds to kill right now or else I lose another crop. People buying horse hay do not want mostly weeds. They want no weeds! It should have been sprayed a week ago when they were a couple inches tall, not now when they are three feet tall! but of course the tractor was in the shop again.
It really sounds like they are trying to find a way out and blame this on me but the service manager did tell me a factory rep is coming out this time. I'm sure my rapidly growing weeds out in the field are happy knowing they have another hold on their death sentence. My hay is due to cut in two weeks too.
I guess I'll get out my wide brimmed hat and the sea bag and get to hand picking. AGAIN! It's all I can do now. This whole deal is probably on of the biggest disappointments of my life. I thought I was buying the best tractor brand made but now I'm about to be forced out of the farming business by it. My payment on it is due in a couple weeks too. Isn't that nice.
Oh, my lawyer laughed at this one, I wrote in my letter to them about that hydraulic fitting they left loose that puked all over my alfalfa. I also wrote that I FIXED IT in the field. The service manager told my wife yesterday that he checked it and it wasn't loose.
NO crap. I FIXED IT!
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Can anyone think of ANYTHING else at all, no matter how stupid it may sound that can be causing my engine to miss badly, smoke white and die?
The injection pump has now been rebuilt
new lift pump,
new fuel filters several times
New fuel filter housing and bleeder screw,
New suction side fuel hoses, from pump to filter and filter to tank
The problem is it's intermittent. Sometimes it will run fine at 2000 rpm here sitting in the driveway. The dealer said they ran it for two hours this time and it didn't act up. They replaced the lift pump and filter housing this time.
It ran 5 minutes after getting home before it died though. All I was doing was slowly driving across the field getting ready to mow and was at about 1500 rpm. I was using the foot throttle and at first the RPM started hunting mildly. I thought it was just my foot bouncing on the pedal so I switched over to the hand throttle and that's when it started blowing smoke and died.
I can't picture this being an injector problem at all. Any 4 cylinder out there will stay running with one bad or dead injector. 2 will usually kill it pretty fast but it feels a lot different than this.
I haven't used any antifreeze that wasn't caused by an external leak. I've fixed two drippy hoses on it so far.
I can't picture it being something tight in the engine. Like a sticking ring, valve or anything else.
All I know for sure is when it dies the filters are full of air. The entire fuel system has been replaced now though. Or rebuilt as in the case of the injector pump.
I am not aware of any electrically actuated switches anywhere on it that will shut the motor down. The shutoff solenoid is either open or shut, no in between on them. It doesn't always die. Sometimes it just runs like it wants to die.
Just looking for more ideas. Meanwhile I'm going shopping around for a new USED tractor. I have got to have something working here.
The injection pump has now been rebuilt
new lift pump,
new fuel filters several times
New fuel filter housing and bleeder screw,
New suction side fuel hoses, from pump to filter and filter to tank
The problem is it's intermittent. Sometimes it will run fine at 2000 rpm here sitting in the driveway. The dealer said they ran it for two hours this time and it didn't act up. They replaced the lift pump and filter housing this time.
It ran 5 minutes after getting home before it died though. All I was doing was slowly driving across the field getting ready to mow and was at about 1500 rpm. I was using the foot throttle and at first the RPM started hunting mildly. I thought it was just my foot bouncing on the pedal so I switched over to the hand throttle and that's when it started blowing smoke and died.
I can't picture this being an injector problem at all. Any 4 cylinder out there will stay running with one bad or dead injector. 2 will usually kill it pretty fast but it feels a lot different than this.
I haven't used any antifreeze that wasn't caused by an external leak. I've fixed two drippy hoses on it so far.
I can't picture it being something tight in the engine. Like a sticking ring, valve or anything else.
All I know for sure is when it dies the filters are full of air. The entire fuel system has been replaced now though. Or rebuilt as in the case of the injector pump.
I am not aware of any electrically actuated switches anywhere on it that will shut the motor down. The shutoff solenoid is either open or shut, no in between on them. It doesn't always die. Sometimes it just runs like it wants to die.
Just looking for more ideas. Meanwhile I'm going shopping around for a new USED tractor. I have got to have something working here.
Better Business bureau is my very next step, My lawyer doesn't do cases like this at all and has referred me to one that does. Unfortunately I am nowhere near being in a position to afford him. This state does not consider tractors to be worthy of the lemon law so I'm screwed there too.
Corporate headquarters and top service; absolutely no help. In fact the first time I called I was promised they would fix it or get me a new one by someone that apparently didn't know what he was talking about. They now deny saying that. The regional manager that they said would be calling me never has either. Of course noone will give me his number either.
Corporate headquarters and top service; absolutely no help. In fact the first time I called I was promised they would fix it or get me a new one by someone that apparently didn't know what he was talking about. They now deny saying that. The regional manager that they said would be calling me never has either. Of course noone will give me his number either.
I know a problem like this has to be to wost kind of problem to have . If the fuel shut off silenoid works and the pump works and the lines and tank and outlet screens are clean the tractor should run right . To me it has to be electric or fuel related . It still sounds like the injector pump but there could be a wire or ignition switch some where in the picture. A loose fuse or a bad computer board . It also could be some kind of saftey switch going bad. It was easy to figure out on the older tractors not as much if any to do with electrical to keep the tractor running. I would call the dealer and get a appointment with the factory rep . On the fuel filter could they have left a extra o-ring on the housing causing a bad seal . I would be looking for little things you might find it. Check the air filter for a small hole letting dust to ruin the engines rings .
I'm sure the air filter is good. I have replaced it several times too. It's real dusty around here. I always reach up in the air hose looking for dust too and shine a light up there looking. Old habit from rebuilding too many of these things.
I keep looking and looking at diagrams of this thing and trying to figure it out. There is no computer, no loose wires or fuses, the voltage stays regular on the shutoff and the injector shop checked it when they rebuilt the pump. It was done by a very large and reputable shop here.
I can't find any safety switches capable of shutting down the engine either. They all just go to idiot lights. The seat, PTO, oil pres, temp, water in fuel all go to lights and aren't connected in any way to the shutoff as best as I or anyone else can determine. If it were any of this or even the ignition switch then the shutoff would drop power when whatever it is failed. It never has though. It's just a one wire solenoid so it's either on with power or off without power. I even removed and cleaned the tar out of the battery ground cable just in case. Ever since I had to rebuild an engine once on another brand tractor because a frame ground failed and the current took a path through the crankshaft instead, welding the bearings, I always check cables first.
It's just weird! I don't know if the fact that I can't figure it out or that I'm losing money like crazy while it sits in the shop is ticking me off worse. Ive never been stumped by an engine in my life before.
I keep looking and looking at diagrams of this thing and trying to figure it out. There is no computer, no loose wires or fuses, the voltage stays regular on the shutoff and the injector shop checked it when they rebuilt the pump. It was done by a very large and reputable shop here.
I can't find any safety switches capable of shutting down the engine either. They all just go to idiot lights. The seat, PTO, oil pres, temp, water in fuel all go to lights and aren't connected in any way to the shutoff as best as I or anyone else can determine. If it were any of this or even the ignition switch then the shutoff would drop power when whatever it is failed. It never has though. It's just a one wire solenoid so it's either on with power or off without power. I even removed and cleaned the tar out of the battery ground cable just in case. Ever since I had to rebuild an engine once on another brand tractor because a frame ground failed and the current took a path through the crankshaft instead, welding the bearings, I always check cables first.
It's just weird! I don't know if the fact that I can't figure it out or that I'm losing money like crazy while it sits in the shop is ticking me off worse. Ive never been stumped by an engine in my life before.
Try to see if the tractor dies if you get off of the seat while driving . If it does the seat switch may be the problem. Try hooking your seat belt and see if the problem still is there. My seat switch caused me and others to think our transmission was jumping out of gear when we were slightly letting our weight off of the seat switch . It was a saftey in case you got off of the seat it would go to neutral and we had to shuttle back in gear. If you drive setting on the front edge of the seat it will let the switch activate.