Engineers in Knoxville?

[Richard]

Try dealing with an inspector who litterally changes his mind during the final (and fails you) and won't give you a reason as to why he changed his mind.

I wasn't at the conversation I'm going to mention so I don't really know the details.

Seems the inspector was out for what I guess we'd call the rough in inspection?

Regardless... during this visit he evidently made mention of the beam(s) he wanted in the kitchen. Our builder told us of this conversation but said essentially, he thought he knew how they could make everyone happy.

I didn't put any more thought into it.

Updating to today in time, I still don't know the real details but from what the wife told me he told her... (yes, one of those things), it seems the guy who actually did the log work "signed off on it"

Exactly what that means and what he might have signed off on is currently beyond me.

I can't imagine he had a form he signed... it might be that he simply assured my builder that the work was fine and (given his experience) up to code and would pass...

I don't know.

Regardless... in essence, nothing was done at THAT time and today, the inspector comes back out and I guess views this as a "how in the world did you forget that beam?" kind of thing.

Again, I admittedly don't know all these nuances since it was the wife talking to them each time and she's not one for details.

He's due out today to tinker around on the punch list. There are certainly a number of things we can be doing to keep the ball rolling and visit this in a couple days after I can try to find an engineer. I'll admit I'm torn as to should I deal with it or should he... I'm comfortable trying to build an argument either way. Perhaps I'll let the cost dictate it and if it's relatively inexpensive, I'll deal with it and if it's say, $500 or more, maybe strongly suggest it's split, this way it's not an issue for contention. (hopefully)

 

[buckeyefarmer]

In N.C, I've never known an inspector to "trump" a PE stamp.

Inspections departments are very interesting to deal with, and sometimes I do wonder how they go about hiring their people. That said, there are some very smart men who know their trade in different inspection departments, who have high standards and understands their "codes" and expect others to have those same standards.

{on my soapbox}
Well, I'm a PE, and my county inspectors have trumped me several times. When I talked to the head inspector, She didn't even know what a PE was, I had to explain it to her. Her job should have been a PE. Totally unbelievable. I live in a county very near to DC (maybe that explains why they don't know jack), and it's unbelievable the CR** that goes on. They are in control and will let you know that. We have county commissioners that make up the rules as they go. Forget building codes, zoning rules, etc.. if they don't want it they will make up a reason, and leave it to you to sue them. The older guys that used to be in the permits office understood and would work with you. The good guys have retired, and the new younger ones are a pain to work with.

{exit soapbox}

 

[Duffster]

She didn't even know what a PE was,

Neither do I

What is a PE?

 

[2manyrocks]

What buckeyefarmer just described goes on in many places. If you carefully look into the codes and standards process, you'll find out that the people who appear to have the most input into them are code officials, and they write the codes to give themselves a great deal of discretion and make the process practically impossible from a time and cost standpoint for the average person to do much except cave in.

I'm a bit confused about how you got to this point without the beam issue having been raised before. Are you dealing with the same inspector or a different one?

I'm also a little confused about who drew the "plans." It's one thing for your wife to say, I want this here and that there, and it's another thing to specifically draw up framing plans that say put a 2x8 here and the next one at 16" O.C. If you hand the contractor a set of blueprints with specific details of framing, and he follows the blueprints, I hesitate to say the contractor is at fault.

If you need an engineer who actually has experience with your local codes department, I suggest you call one of the larger homebuilders and your area, tell them you have a codes problem and ask if they can recommend someone to you. By the time you pay for an engineer, it's probably cheaper to install the beam.

 

[Richard]

I'm also a little confused about who drew the "plans." It's one thing for your wife to say, I want this here and that there, and it's another thing to specifically draw up framing plans that say put a 2x8 here and the next one at 16" O.C. If you hand the contractor a set of blueprints with specific details of framing, and he follows the blueprints, I hesitate to say the contractor is at fault.

If you need an engineer who actually has experience with your local codes department, I suggest you call one of the larger homebuilders and your area, tell them you have a codes problem and ask if they can recommend someone to you. By the time you pay for an engineer, it's probably cheaper to install the beam.

1. I do not know about the inspector... my GUESS is it's the same person but since I've never met them, I'm only speculating.

2. The wife drew a picture, that is all.. a picture on a piece of paper showing the house and her vision of the addition (she's a good artist) besides, the addition wasn't TOO complicated. The architect or draftsman (I do not really know his full credentials) then took her vision, as well as the ORIGINAL blueprints for when the house was first built (giving him the structure of it) and he then drew plans up for the addition. I might add that he also thinks the beam is unnecessary however, I must say again, I do not know his full credentials.

I'll attach some pictures to at least put a vision on it.

One picture is the basic framing so you can see the existing walls and the 4 angled walls that were added. The lower half are LOGS to match the rest of the house, the top half is stick built and given a 1x12 facade on the front (and inside) to give the look of a log.

The second picture is of the inside, showing what it looks like now. The peak to the ceiling is about 19 1/2'. My camera isn't good enough to show this wide angle.

I do not know if the inspector wants a beam from left to right or front to back. My HONEST opinion is, if he wants a beam to keep a wall from falling, then he SHOULD want two beams, one tying the side wall and the second tying in the front wall. After all, if my walls are at risk of falling outward, what good is it to only anchor one side??

As for cost of engineer verses cost of beam... trust me, my wife could care less about the cost. Her take on it is she's living with the view every day and if it costs me $1,000 to have an engineer verify that it's sound and sign off on it, she's not going to quibble.

She's also not going to quibble if it costs me $1,000 to have an engineer look at it... decide we DO need the supports and then we pay another $500 for the supports.. iffen ya know what I mean. The cost of it is the last thing on her mind, she is asthetics first and dayum the rest!!

 

[Richard]

Here's more of an after picture although it's not necessarily relevant to the discussion. We are very tickled at how it turned out.

 

[RonMar]

I would first start with the architect/draftsman(most likley an arcitect) who turned your wife's concept into buildable plans. Draftsman typically work for arcitects and do the physical process of putting pencil to paper, or in todays world, mouse pointer to CAD program to produce a finished print that an arcitect will sign. If the arcitect dosn't have the credentials, he should be able to reccomend an engineer who can back up his work with an analysis and certification. IMO, any issues with the structure construction, provided the Contractor followed the plans, rests with the arcitect or engineer who approved it. Things are of course different all over, but I would think it difficult to have pulled a permit for this addition without a certified plan. A building inspector should be just that. He should be ensuring that the contractors who do the work do so to the plan and code guidelines. And that the work is done to a level of expertise that will meet the code and make the structure as strong as the approved design said it would be. The inspector shouldn't be requiring additions to an approved structural plan. Is he a PE? Probably not, or he wouldn't be a building inspector? AN inspectors gut shouldn't be able to trump an engineers calculations and approval... Yea, Yea I know, get back to the real world Ron...


To answer Duffsters question:
"A PE is a Professional Engineer who holds a PE liscence for a particular state. When an engineer receives a professional engineer's license (P.E. license) it is a stamp of approval of credentials by the state. In order to receive a P.E. license, an individual must first meet rigid requirements established by the state."

 

[Reg]

It is my belief that CAD software "Implements" the building code.
These are the design rules on which it selects (specifies) material and it's placement.
e.g. it specs flooring joist height and spacing based on span and load to be supported.
roof rafters (or trusses) based on pitch, snow load, shingle weight, etc.
Same for load bearing walls, etc.

To some extent I would believe that if the software didn't spec it, you don't need it.

Not that you can get a software package to "Answer" a building inspector's questions.

 

[SPYDERLK]

The second picture is of the inside, showing what it looks like now. The peak to the ceiling is about 19 1/2'. My camera isn't good enough to show this wide angle.

I do not know if the inspector wants a beam from left to right or front to back. My HONEST opinion is, if he wants a beam to keep a wall from falling, then he SHOULD want two beams, one tying the side wall and the second tying in the front wall. After all, if my walls are at risk of falling outward, what good is it to only anchor one side??

As for cost of engineer verses cost of beam... trust me, my wife could care less about the cost. Her take on it is she's living with the view every day and if it costs me $1,000 to have an engineer verify that it's sound and sign off on it, she's not going to quibble.

She's also not going to quibble if it costs me $1,000 to have an engineer look at it... decide we DO need the supports and then we pay another $500 for the supports.. iffen ya know what I mean. The cost of it is the last thing on her mind, she is asthetics first and dayum the rest!!

Pucker up and kiss/butter up inspector four legged donkey type animal/behind. Explain the problem of the location and ask what other means there is to achieve a safe structure that helps to preserve the look your wife wants. Perhaps he will have some good ideas. Maybe your wife should participate when you talk -- a tag team.
larry

 

[Richard]

Perhaps he will have some good ideas. Maybe your wife should participate when you talk -- a tag team.

I just realized... I should FIRST inquire if he's married or not... If he's married he should clearly understand my position