Ethanol Free Fuel gets Reprieve

[Copperhead]

Corn is not energy-efficient. Any kind of wood is far worse. Take away the government mandate and the government subsidy, and the whole shebang will come to a screeching halt as nobody will buy the product.

Brazil can use alcohol because of their climate. They can grow sugar cane in abundance, cheaply, and it's an excellent source of alcohol. We don't have the water supply anywhere in the U.S. to support cane sugar in that kind of quantity, and we don't have enough land with the right climate for it.

What government subsidy would that be? Ethanol subsidies were eliminated in 2011. No, it will not come screeching to a halt. There are a myriad of products that are derived from ethanol production. Various polymers/plastics, high protein feed supplements, products that are used in spark plug insulators, and a laundry list of other goodies. And pricing is such that ethanol fuels win out at the pump in most situations. Most places, E0 is substantially higher than E10. And since many have been using E10 for decades, they don't see the need to spend more than they have to for fuel. Only the purists with bottomless pockets seem to be willing to spend more. I can easily afford ethanol free, but I am not going to spend more to use it. Many try to say that ethanol production uses too much water. Well then, they better quite buying gasoline also, as petro fuel production uses almost as much water and current ethanol production.

I suppose a mandate can be construed as a subsidy, but ethanol hardly rates in comparison to all the other nonsense that gets mandated and we have to pay for.

What I would like to see is the changes to the ethanol plants, taking them to the next level, so that they are making butanol as opposed to ethanol. Just move the ethanol 2 chain molecule to a 4 chain molecule and all the problems that people fear go away. It can be moved thru pipeline like gasoline, it has almost the same energy content as gasoline, and it is not hydroscopic like ethanol. Unlike ethanol, butanol can also be mixed with diesel fuel with some very good results in improved combustion and other factors. And it can be used, clear up to full strength, in any car or pickup running down the road currently. No flex fuel required.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

What government subsidy would that be?

The mandated production of ethanol blended fuels.

You're welcome.

 

[MF283]

You are so full of it. Many of us have used E10 in vehicles and small engines since the late 70's when gasohol first started showing up in quantity, with no fuel related problems whatsoever. My 1974 Pontiac Catalina got fed E10 clear up till it died of body cancer in the mid 90's. Engine was still fine. Same for every vehicle I have owned during that time also and since. My JD rider got fed E10 frequently and lasted for years with no issues. Those that have had problems, usually improper fuel storage or any number of other issues were probably to blame. But ethanol got the blame because no one wants to admit they screwed up.

Same here, i tried to switch my 2 stroke stuff years ago to "free", never could tune them to run on it. Went back to the corn & they ran proper again.

Ronnie

 

[Garandman]

Who We Are - Fuel Freedom Foundation

 

[Copperhead]

The mandated production of ethanol blended fuels.

You're welcome.

So then let's see... pasteurized milk is a subsidy, seat belts are a subsidy, and the list goes on and on. I stated, and I still stand behind it, that the mandate may be in a round about way considered a subsidy, but ethanol is barely is a blip on the radar compared to all the other things that are either mandated or outright paid for with the tax payer money thru actual subsidies, grants, etc.

 

[Copperhead]

Who We Are - Fuel Freedom Foundation

Was getting into the reading until this....

If we made fuels like ethanol, methanol, natural gas and biofuels more widely available to consumers, prices would fall and less money would flow to other nations that export their oil. We would have less need to send our sons and daughters to faraway places to secure the supply and transport of oil.

What they don't seem to understand is that the U.S. in the top oil and fuel exporting countries. The sons and daughters argument is to tug at the heart strings. We didn't send them to these areas for much of anything related to oil except maybe so some allies wouldn't have the spigot turned off. Oil is a global commodity. It moves all over the place and goes primarily to where it can get the highest price for it. Economics 101

 

[Ford850]

Since I have had carb issues in my small engines these past couple years, for the first time ever, I thought I'd try the 90REC fuel (E-0) I mentioned above. I'm not a firm believer of either extreme argument about Ethanol though. I don't like being 'forced' to buy it since less than 1% of the stations carry E-0 around me. I also believe it is a scapegoat for many of the fuel problems we hear about in small engines, including mine. Here's a contradiction... Ethanol is proven to clean fuel systems, sometimes to a fault by loosening years of varnish and gunk which can then plug jets etc. It's cleaning ability is why I ran 2 full tanks of E-85 through my truck to possibly clean things. So it if does such a strong cleaning of fuel systems, how is it blamed for gumming things up? Could it be the other umpteen additives that were introduced and have changed over the same time period as Ethanol that are causing gas storage issues? Or the big difference is summer fuel blends mandated by the EPA that change the mix enough that is detectible in MPGs? Or a combination of several things? My money is on 'several things'. I wonder what it would do to a small engine to run an occasional tank of E-85 for a cleaning. (disclaimer: using E85 in an engine not designed for it will likely void it's warranty and could cause damage. )

 

[clemsonfor]

I keep hoping... nothing within a several hours drive one way near San Francisco... Cloverdale to the North,
Lake Nacimiento Marina to the South and Gardnerville, Nevada to the East

Sounds like you need to take a transfer tank and make a run one Saturday to eat lunch some place new and fill up the tank on the way there and bring it back.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I guess I'm full of it too, as I've had PLENTY of fuel related problems with E10!

Now that I went away from it, problems have gone away... No, I don't have problems with my car's that are on it, but my older carbed small motors do.....I'm DONE with E10 in those!

BTW, I don't drink "pasteurized" milk either! lol

SR

 

[daugen]

I believe part of the problem is the switching from non ethanol to ethanol gasses, and yes, it sure does clean better. Cleaned so well that every three years I had to take all four tiny carburetors off my Yamaha outboard and have them ultrasonically cleaned due to gunk getting dislodged I assume. Most marinas now carry ethanol free.
Take a brand new car and start running ethanol gas from the beginning, that makes sense to me it shouldn't have a problem. Unless there are colder climate condensation issues.

Saying someone is full of it for having an opinion contrary to one's own doesn't allow for much discussion, nor is it the mark of an open mind.