Ethanol free gas?

/ Ethanol free gas? #1  

reb

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
1,108
Location
Central Arizona
Tractor
YM1500D
I notice that small engine manufacturers recommend ethanol free 87 octane gas, or an additive, or 91 octane. I have been using whatever is available for years with no problems. I do use Stabil in my gas cans, usually double the recommended dose. Is Stabil a satisfactory additive? If not, what should be used in place or in addition?

I don't understand the recommendation for 91 octane. From what I read, 87 octane is satisfactory for 8.5:1 compression, which all these small engines seem to have. Anyone know what this is about?
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #2  
I’ve always used ethanol free gas without problem. I think it’s 87 octane.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #3  
you can get ethanol free gas at an airport. aircraft can't afford to have their engines quit.. 87 octane is good for a perfect world.. a little too much ethanol or water caused by ethanol attracting water, and you lose octane..
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #4  
More and more places here are offering Ethanol free in their premium pumps. That's all that I've run in my small engines for several years, and I've had no problems.
Aviation fuel is 100 Octane low lead, and a bit more pricey.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #6  
Sea Foam is what I use, as a fuel conditioner, and will also clean up any varnish. If you have any suspected varnish, sea foam will brake that stuff free and usually clog up every thing and it won't even run.. IF it's enough present in the fuel system..
I also use non ethanol in every gas burner engine I have.
Rubber fuel lines will be the first to go, cracking on inside and small pieces will get in the jets or float.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #7  
When you add oil to a 2-cycle premix fuel, it lowers the octane number by about 2 points. That is why manufactures recommend a mid-grade to make up for the drop.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #8  
When you add oil to a 2-cycle premix fuel, it lowers the octane number by about 2 points. That is why manufactures recommend a mid-grade to make up for the drop.

Interesting. I have never heard that.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #9  
There are several problems with E10 (10% ethanol) gas in small engines:

1) The ethanol tends to attack rubber and some rubber-like compounds. Fuel lines, O-rings, and the diaphragm in the fuel pump were all effected by it. This was especially a problem with older saws. Newer saws tend to have newer rubber/plastic compounds which are more resistant to ethanol's effects. Unfortunately, many of them are not completely ethanol-proof, they are just ethanol resistant, so they still may break down over time. some of those affected parts are fairly easily replaceable with new, ethanol resistant parts (such as the fuel line). Others take a bit more doing (such as replacing parts during a card rebuild).

2) You should avoid using stale fuel in small engines. Since ethanol-blended gas is less stable than "pure" gas, it's even more important not to use old gas in small engines. This is especially important in 2-cycle engines, since the fuel is also their lubrication system, so the fuel gets into more areas of the engine than in a 4 cycle engine.

3) Ethanol is hygroscopic: it attracts and combines with water. It will actually pull moisture out of the air and combine with it. When E10 gas absorbs enough moisture, the ethanol/water mix will separate from the gas and sink to the bottom of the tank. This ethanol water mix is corrosive, and can do real damage if left in contact with metal parts. That ethanol is also now concentrated into a much smaller volume than it the 10% mix that was in the gas - so it will have even more effect on any rubber-type parts that are not ethanol-proof. It takes some time for a tank or can of fuel to pull enough moisture out of the air to cause phase separation. How much time varies depending on a lot of factors (humidity; how tightly sealed the tank is - most tanks are vented; how much airspace is in the tank - a full tank has less room for air, thus less opportunity to bring moisture in and less chance for condensation to form in the tank.

Some of these problems are lessened if you use the saw regularly and run it dry if it won't be used in the very near future. Some problems are at least partially helped by additives, but additives are definitely NOT a cure-all. As one additive manufacturer put it, "be careful not to buy into any false sense of security that a fuel additive is going to completely counter the harmful effects of ethanol, particularly when left in a tank for a long period of time." Some additives are more of a fuel system cleaner than a fuel stabilizer. Ethanol is an effective fuel system cleaner already, so if you are running E10 gas, there is little to be gained by adding a fuel system cleaner.

I had never heard the story Ruffdog mentioned about how adding 2 cycle oil lowers the octane rating of the fuel when added, so I can't comment about it's accuracy. I do know that the ethanol in E10 fuel adds about 2 points to the octane rating of the gas to which it is added. So if you get phase separation (as noted in #3 above), the remaining fuel is now 2 points lower (so if you started with 87 octane, you are at 85 octane after the ethanol separates out).
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #10  
Dallas (and many other locations) are not allowed to sell ethanol-free gas in the summer. I use one of the ethanol-eater additives (does not really get rid of the ethanol but disperses it so it can be used a little better.). It does not directly address the problem of rubber attack but it is the best I can do for 6 months unless I want to drive 90 miles to get out of the ozone-affected zone.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #11  
Not long after E-10 came to Maine I bought a new fuel can with one of those fancy "environmental friendly" spouts which make the can cost three times what it's worth.
Within a year the seals were all leaking, just as your O-rings on older engines.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #12  
always use 91 ethanol free here, its the only thing ethanol free at our pumps we dont have 87 that is E free here. I have yet to have any probs with any of my gas engines and i have and i have 11 of them ranging from 6 to 30 + yrs old. 2 stroke and 4.

I use seafoam and stabil periodically.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #13  
Ethanol free gas 91 is what the local station has so that's what I use in my chainsaws, trimmer, lawn tractor and dozer..
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #14  
More and more places here are offering Ethanol free in their premium pumps. That's all that I've run in my small engines for several years, and I've had no problems.
Aviation fuel is 100 Octane low lead, and a bit more pricey.
These pumps with several grades available. If the previous customer purchased a high Ethanol gas and then you choose no Ethonol fuel
there remains in pump and hose close to 2 gallons of fuel from previous customer before your choice is pumped.. Notice omly diesol is in seperate pump.
ken
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #15  
Ethanol free gas 91 is what the local station has so that's what I use in my chainsaws, trimmer, lawn tractor and dozer..

Same here, and no troubles now that I switched to this. With Ethanol gas I had to replace some rubber components in my weed eater several times. I didn't have any trouble with the lawn tractor either way, but I figure why not use the more stable fuel without water. :). 91 is very available here from many local pumps.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #17  
I have a can that I reserve for my side by side, and I fill that one first. My side by side is E fuel safe, but I choose not to use E fuel in it. That clears out any E fuel from the hose, and then I fill my other cans that are reserved for my generators and other small engines that I have around here.

Another thing I have done in the past is, to put the first gallon of so in my pu, then fill my cans...

I absolutely refuse to put ANY E fuel in my small engines, because of all the problems E fuel has caused me in the past.

SR
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #18  
I have been using whatever is available for years with no problems. I do use Stabil in my gas cans, usually double the recommended dose. Is Stabil a satisfactory additive? If not, what should be used in place or in addition?

I view Stabil as fine, for up to 1 year. Your higher dosages would likely extend that a bit. I've seen posts on here about what is used by military depots, but as I'm not looking for multi-year timelines at those kind of volumes, haven't pursued those products.

In terms of the ethanol side, you have a great advantage living where you do reb...... I'd expect most things, including gasoline, to store better in AZ.

What are the Effects of Ethanol in Gasoline and How to Protect Your Engines Against Them | Gold Eagle Co

Ethanol does affect combustion timing somewhat, but unless one is into racing motorcycles, most people would never notice the effect.

Rgds, D.
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #19  
I absolutely refuse to put ANY E fuel in my small engines, because of all the problems E fuel has caused me in the past

Same and I forgot about the generator, that gets nothing but non E as well..

If I buy a new chainsaw or trimmer etc, I bring with me some non E mix and before they start it for the first time I have them use my fuel, I don't want E fuel in my small engines right from the get go..
 
/ Ethanol free gas? #20  
These pumps with several grades available. If the previous customer purchased a high Ethanol gas and then you choose no Ethonol fuel
there remains in pump and hose close to 2 gallons of fuel from previous customer before your choice is pumped.. Notice omly diesol is in seperate pump.
ken

I only buy no E gas from pumps with a separate hose for no e only. There’s at least 2 stations locally that sell no e with its own hose.
 

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