Ethanol in Gasoline - Fuel Additives Gasoline - Truth

[Skyco]

So what's growing in the field that you are smoking, Bro ?

Go read this thread- it gets worse.... http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/oil-fuel-lubricants/223248-synthetic-oil-small-engines.html

 

[tsteahr]

Well SEF94 is "FOR SMALL ENGINES ONLY" with mix oil in it and the EPA exemption was granted to these Manufacturer's as you see on their site used "Fire/Rescue' and other government agencies as a method to get the exemptions to manufacturer this - before you go there - I will rebut you ahead of time - As government agencies must submit for bid to support small businesses and buy from local such businesses I would question based on seminars I have sat in on presented by Industry Leaders, being able to buy in bulk 55 gallons being legal to Joe Blow Citizen - and the only true source of Race Fuel Ethanol Free Gasoline is direct tank fill at a race track.. Funny when I asked that Sunoco guy at the track how to get it for personal use he said good luck outside of being NASCAR licensed and approved to race that day.... we have had alot of customers come in claiming they buy ethanol free gasoline and welcome them to bring us their samples as we test it in front of them and watch the smiles get turned upside down... oh yeah manufacturer's have gotten and are getting to that point where they are requesting Dealers to test fuel and offer fuel test kits... or you can buy your own. Race and FFA (Aviation) is exempted besides if you got paid full price by a gas station owner plus $4000 per tanker load tax free from uncle Sam wouldn't you follow the law???? Do the Math Greed feeds the Ethanol Monster that delivers to a station near your - 8,800 gallon tanker times $0.45= $3,960 of our tax dollars???? That is why Ethanol Free Gas is approved and must have mix already in it so you are not tempted to use it in your car - if you can afford $5.99 and up per Quart???? $24.00 per gallon and that is not even Stihl/Husqvarana pre-mix prices??

We are talking about fuel for small engines. We are NOT talking about race fuel or aviation fuel. Yes, you are correct SEF94 is for small engines. If you take a moment to read the VP site I posted, SEF94 is available with and without oil premixed. I have SEF94 without oil in my leaf vac fueltank right now. It was purchased from a retail location, available to any Joe Blow who walks in the door. I got to talking with the owner and asked him how he obtains the fuel, as he is willing to sell small quantities (gallon or less) in addition to the 5 gallon pails. He mentioned he orders the pails but would be happy to order any size I would like, up to 55 gallon drums. In addition he mentioned he only orders the oil free SEF94 as this allows customers to use any 2 stroke oil they wish. The retail location is a authorized Stihl dealer. This dealer has chosen to carry SEF94 and NOT carry MotoMix because the cost of SEF94 is considerably less than MotoMix AND it is available WITHOUT oil premixed. This is a link to this dealer's web site. If you take a moment to scroll down the page you will see the SEF94 mentioned. You can also see this is a small, local small engine/lawnmower shop/Stihl dealer targeted at local homeowners and landscapers NOT Government agencies / fire / rescue. The SEF94 page also specifically targets the product to homeowners / landscapers.

I understand you are well meaning in trying to help people avoid fuel problems in small engine. Your intent seems honorable.

The problem I have with your posts is they are laced with mixture of truths, half-truths, false statements and information not relevant to the subject.

 

[allis180]

And by the way Ethanol in a Laboratory is called "Formic Acid" with a PH of 5-7...[/QUOTE]

In my lab we call ethanol "ethyl alcohol". In my house we call it booze. It isn't formic acid.

 

[Bedford24]

OK Guess Every other major Web Story is full of holes - Wive's Tale like this one
E10 Ethanol: Recommended engine precautions

or this one about warranty issues GM, Chrysler, Toyota Warn That Higher-Ethanol Gas May Void Warranties - The Consumerist

Car Makers Warn Motorists About Ethanol Fuel - GM Inside News Forum

Are fuel additives worth your time and money?


http://idea.library.drexel.edu/bitstream/1860/475/9/Yozgatligil_Ahmet.pdf


The Trouble With Ethanol from of IFW Magazine

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-6015/BAE-1746pod.pdf

http://www.cnie.org/NLE/CRSreports/06Nov/RL33290.pdf

ANd for celluloid ethanol to be attached to the hydrocarbon base in fuel makes it an ester and -OH connecting to a hydrocarbon forms a type of formic acid - omg how can anything be corrosive if it isn't an acid - ok I could go on and on but enough of this petty trying to look better than someone else - I don't have to prove anything on a computer page - please people grow up..

 

[Bird]

This has been an interesting discussion, so let's please keep it civil and avoid personal attacks.

 

[Monster5601]

That linked PDF is full of factual errors-

"Products that call themselves
Octane boosters or even Sea Foam are mostly
more ethanol, Methanol-Butane Ester, K-1 Kerosene
(Naptha) or a combination of all."

Seafoam contains no ethanol, it does contain isopropanol. Why is (Naptha) after K-1 Kerosene implying they are the same, they are not.


"Federal Law requires that ALL gasoline sold to
consumers must contain at least 10 % Ethanol."

That statement is false.


Don't get me wrong I don't like ethanol laden gas....but the linked document is a joke...why does it push Stihl products? Surely a reputable company like Stihl didn't authorize this.
Hmmmm..

You are not kidding, I would like to point out the grammatical errors, spelling errors, and the lack of sites and references in the OP's PDF. To me, this makes the PDF non-creditable or should I say incredible.

I didn't include any references since my observations are so easily verified and in most cases are simply common sense.

The PDF says: Acid Properties of Ethanol/Methanol also breakdown plastics and rubber components such as fuel lines, filters or even in-tank fuel pumps.

Not true in vehicles built in the past 30 or so years. Ethanol is biodegradable in water so it has a tendency attract and contain moisture. It is not the corrosive properties of ethanol that can cause damage to your vehicle it is the water. Gasoline can also contain water (remember dry gas).


The PDF says: Ethanol or Methanol Alcohols require more energy to burn

This is a silly statement, Ethanol contains less BTUs than gasoline so the same quantity of ethanol can do less work than the same quantity of gasoline.


The PDF says: Anytime an additive is put into gasoline it reduces [sic]it'd actual octane rating, makes it less volatile so that it does not burn off or release [sic]it's full power.

That depends on what the additive is and the ratio. Reducing the octane makes the gasoline more (not less) volatile. The purpose of octane is to make the gasoline less volatile thus allowing the fuel to combust together and to prevent partial combustion due to compression. Higher octane is more important as the engine's compression ratio increases. Despite the popular belief, a higher octane fuel is not better gas.


The PDF says: Fuel Stabilizers such as Sea Foam - or Sta-bile can be used in Diesel Engines because these engines operate on the principle that Higher temperatures are needed to complete an efficient combustion process.

What can I say about this off the wall statement, especially on this forum. We all know diesels run the opposite.


The PDF says: Buy no more Gasoline than you can use in 30 days. If you have left over Gasoline use it in older equipment or vehicles before it expires or bring it to a [sic]Dealerhip for disposal.

Gasoline, if properly store, has a year or more shelf life. By keep gas in a closed container you prevent the evaporation of light chemicals and you keep the oxygen away and preventing oxidation.


The PDF says: Gas Stations that have a single Hose for each pump for all grades of gasoline are pre-charged with up to two gallons of Gasoline.

Multi-grade fuel pumps typically hold about 0.2 to 0.3 gallons of fuel between the pump and the nozzle. Fuel grades are brought separately into the pump.


The PDF says: REMEDIES YOU CAN TAKE

My suggestion is to ignore the PDF (except for the suggestion to not use additives) and follow the manufactures recommendations, after all, they are the ones that are responsible for the engine's warranty.

 

[Monster5601]

OK Guess Every other major Web Story is full of holes - Wive's Tale like this one
Yes, at least every link provided.

E10 Ethanol: Recommended engine precautions
This site is trying to sell you something.

or this one about warranty issues GM, Chrysler, Toyota Warn That Higher-Ethanol Gas May Void Warranties - The Consumerist
It is a warning, the auto makers do not yet support E15 in their current models

Car Makers Warn Motorists About Ethanol Fuel - GM Inside News Forum
Member of a forum spreading mis-information

Are fuel additives worth your time and money?
Good common sense information but this isn't supporting any of your original claims.

http://idea.library.drexel.edu/bitstream/1860/475/9/Yozgatligil_Ahmet.pdf
This has nothing to do with E10 in a vehicle

The Trouble With Ethanol from of IFW Magazine
A concern about fire fighting ethanol storage fires.

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-6015/BAE-1746pod.pdf
They agree E10 is suitable for small engines. You are shooting yourself in the foot here.

http://www.cnie.org/NLE/CRSreports/06Nov/RL33290.pdf
Nothing in here supporting your claims either.

ANd for celluloid ethanol to be attached to the hydrocarbon base in fuel makes it an ester and -OH connecting to a hydrocarbon forms a type of formic acid - omg how can anything be corrosive if it isn't an acid - ok I could go on and on but enough of this petty trying to look better than someone else - I don't have to prove anything on a computer page - please people grow up..

I don't know what your intentions are, if you are preparing us for a sales presentation or are simply a victim of nonsense. I do give you credit for the amount of effort you have put forth trying to convince us.

 

[crazyal]

Since we are talking octane 100% Ethanol has an octane rating of about 113. Adding it to gas does not lower the rating of the blend.

 

[Skyco]

Correct on the octane. There is a relatively easy method to remove the ethanol from E-10, but then the problem becomes you turn regular into something with even lower octane...otherwise I'd be doing it:laughing:

 

[John Morgan]

Noone mentioned the last line where it says to use Stihl Moto-Mix. It's strictly a sales document set up to be official looking with enough half-truths to appear credible.