Ever had an Area Variance DENIED?

[dholly]

On an EXISTING structure?

Just came back from the town zoning board meeting wherein I was hoping to have an area variance granted. Instead, a shining example of local government boondogle and another two week delay.

Short story if you care:

I put up a 12'x16' pole shed 8 or so years ago with the blessing (and help) of the neighbors. When selling the house, buyers atty finds no shed building permit was ever issued. Ok, go to get permit, building inspector discovers shed is in violation of 15' side setback requirement (setback is 10'). Erh! Obviously, neither my neighbor nor myself was correct when we decided on the location of our common line!

So I apply for hardship variance due to fact that several mature trees would have to be removed in order to move shed location. Not to mention, it's a pole shed and to move it means to destroy the shed itself. Show up at the meeting to plead my case. Nobody spoke in objection, however, it is then determined that EPOM (Environmental Protection Overlay Map) restrictions may also apply.

Now I might have been born yesterday but it wasn't at night so I know anything with 'Environmental' or 'Protection' in it is not necessarily bad, but put them together and it probably spells BIG problem. Sure enough, Town atty goes thru all the regulation books but cannot determine the exact date the EPOM restrictions went into effect. You'd think they'd have a record of something THEY put into effect, but it was asking too much I guess. So the Board cannot begin to rule on a variance until they can determine if I'm effected by the EPOM. If I'm not 'grandfathered' in on the EPOM restrictions, rules are clear - remove the shed, the variance is a moot issue. Got my fingers crossed on that, you bet.

But what really irks me is that the variance application and information has been in their possession for several weeks before the zoning board meeting and apparently NOBODY even had the courtesy or common sense to look at it until the meeting. Not the building inspector, not the code enforcement officer, none on the 7-member board nor the town atty, clerks, etc. And I was very vocal when filing to ensure that the board knew that a home sale was contingent upon a resolution. Maybe I'm naive but, really, it's a small town and that doesn't seem unreasonable. Unfortunately, many people go thru life expending only the minimum effort, with little regard to the potentially negative ramifications of their IN-actions.

Sorry for the vent, but it's a real pisser when you have to pay their public office salaries too.

 

[firsttimer]

Possibly check your property tax roll to see what you are being taxed for. You may find that the tax assessor has been aware of it for years. I find that even pulling the permits around here, the local inspectors still don't double check the setbacks. If none of the neighbors are objecting, then I don't see any reason why they would not grant the variance. Good luck.

 

[imported_OWDouglas]

Sorry to hear. I've never had one denied, but a friend did, after he put up a fence, someone complained, he had to go before the board and was denied. He had no recourse and had to take the fence down. I guess it all depends on what mood the board is in.... Good Luck

 

[Junkman]

This is a very common problem when you build without getting the permit first. I know of a friend that applied and received a permit for a new building, and after it was finished, he was denied a occupancy permit, because the town officials made a mistake and forgot to tell him that sprinklers were required by a town ordinance because of the size of the building. Seems that no one considered this all through the construction inspection phase, but figured it out on the day of the requested occupancy permit. The town didn't want the original building built, so it was pay back time that day. You are up against the same thing. If they can drag there feet, they will. If they can just confuse the issue long enough they will. If you had posted this previously, I would have given you the advise that I got when I went before the variance board for a permit. Hire the attorney that has the influence to get it done the first time. If your attorney is politically connected, it goes a long way to eliminate problems.

 

[OkeeDon]

A few years ago, in Jensen Beach, FL (a few miles from me), a $3 million apartment complex was torn down because it was not compatible with the nearby single family homes. The county granted a building permit, the residents of the homes sued, the builder gambled -- and lost. Here's a link to the story: Apartments to be razed

 

[dholly]

Well, I think if it was a simple matter of being ok with the neighbors, in all likelihood it would be over. But, the EPOM issue changed that. Up to now, frankly, I didn't have any reason to believe I'd need an attorney for this. In applying for the variance, I spoke directly with both the building inspector and code enforcement officer. Neither informed me about the EPOM issue, even after I showed them my survey map. But, Junkman makes a good point, given the turn of events I might want to pull an ace out of my sleeve before the next meeting. If they rule against me at a public meeting, there's no reversing it. Better to go on the offensive now and try to head it off at the pass I should think.

Don't you love small town politics? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Indydirtfarmer]

I'm dealing with the polar opposite.... A zoning variance that's being forced through, (due to $$$$$$$$$) against the will of neighbor(s). (ME included) /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

My wife and I both have "day jobs" in Louisville. We got tired of commuting to and from the farm everyday, some 55 miles from my job. We elected several years back, to buy a house from my mother-in-law, that's with-in minutes of our jobs. End of story....???? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Our "city home" is/was actually on a fringe area of the developed part of Louisville. (At the time of purchase, Jefferson County, and not Louisville City...3 years back county and city governments merged, forming "Metro Louisville. We're now part of "THE BIG CITY") /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

We have a lot that's right at 2/3rds of an acre. (Bad enough when you're USED TO 788 acres /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif) There is a vacant lot next to us that belongs with what is now a Hooters Restaraunt. (Would you think, even for a brief instant, that living seconds from Hooters could be a problem???) It was originally built as a Sizzler Steak House. That lasted about a year, the Hooters bought the property. The vacant lot was included in the original zoning for Sizzlers site plan. It was indicated at that zoning approval, that the lot would remain ?natural, undeveloped grass area, serving as a buffer between business and residential area, as well as a drainage easement. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif We weren't THRILLED, but at least there was 120 yards of grass (UNMOWED WEEDS) between us and the restaraunt. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Sometimes you take your victories where you can.....

Fast forward 7 years. Hooters wants to sell the property. (Just the "buffer area") They were recieving threats from the city last summer, to keep the lot mowed and cleaned. They just don't want to deal with it. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

There plan? Sell it to a real estate developer, who plans on building SECTION 8 HOUSING on it! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif (4-plex apartment) Needless to say, I'm not thrilled.

The developer has a fast track to the mayors office it seems. The first zoning meeting was a fiasco. The neighbors weren't allowed to speak in opposition. Meeting #2 was even worse than #1. It's down to us paying lawyers for a court injunction to hold up further "progress" while we mount a serious effort to stop the apartment from being built. (This is yet ANOTHER reason why we're looking for another home...) /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Zoning boards are notoriously corrupt around here. If the right palm has already been greased, we won't stop anything from happening. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

My point, NOT TO HI-JACK THE THREAD, is to let you know (what you already may know) that zoning boards don't always play by the rules. They are a WHO you know, not WHAT you know system, if there ever was one. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Do all your homework, pay a lawyer if needed, and hope for the best...Good luck! I'd like to see SOMEONE have GOOD luck with a zoning board. I'm fairly certain I'm NOT going to... /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[LarryRB]

"But what really irks me is that the variance application and information has been in their possession for several weeks before the zoning board meeting and apparently NOBODY even had the courtesy or common sense to look at it until the meeting. Not the building inspector, not the code enforcement officer, none on the 7-member board nor the town atty, clerks, etc."
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I use to hear this complaint by the day.. After awhile, it falls on deaf ears. Most small towns are part time. Most of these positions are non paying or very near. Most all of the people who fill these positions work a full time job and have a lengthy trip to and from that job to begin with. Most, are not really qualified to fill a given position, and do it because no one else will. In the small town that I was selectman in, all of the above applies. They agree to meet once a month... Get home at 7 Pm for a 730 mtg. Rarely, do any read applications before hand and check on the particular property for that application.. It is done the first time at posted mtg. Right off the bat, the applicant is behind and upset..Politics plays a big part in this, depending on that small town situation, In that small town I talk of, no one is willing to hire full time or even pay for a part time employee,,It is a bedroom community where most are from the city, will vote every penny for a school system and little else,, Of course, when they feel they were personally picked on, the story changes, Still, no one is willing to make change,,, A viscious circle that only worsens.. State politics, (Boston), bleed all there is to bleed, leaving that small town and others of its size, scrambling to pay minimums required by law. (ie) school systems. Boston can dictate change, but won't help in any way either.... What is needed is a major overhaul of gvt from top, (Boston again) to bottom.. And again, not enough of the people will get together and pursue such a change for it may upset the apple cart... Maybe your small town is in the same boat, maybe not...

 

[JJT]

When you built the shed were you required to get a building permit? If so and you had a permit, you may have a case. Did the code enforcement officer do any inspections?

If you were required to get a permit and you did not, you don't have a case. It's only a small pole barn/shed, pull it down and get on with life.

I would not hire an attorney or get worked up over a small barn, life's too short.

 

[EddieWalker]

When I was in High School, my Dad built a boat shed on the corner of our lot, which was in the city. No permits, right on the property line and totally illegal. He figured nobody would notice because it was a corner lot and the street dead ended right at our corner.

Turns out the city flys over everyones homes every year taking photos and comparing them to the previous years photos. He never thought of that.

Anyway, he was issued a notice of his violations and ordered to tear it down. Instead, he started asking around on how to fight it and keep his boat shed.

He went to every single home owner in a half mile circle around our home and had them sign a petition stating they didn't object to his boat shed, or something to that effect.

He would go everynight after work and start knocking on doors. It took several weeks if I remember correctly, but he got them all.

When he went in front of the city counsel, he was granted 11 variances and allowed to keep his boat shed. He was also extremly polite towards them when pleading his case.

This was in the Bay Area of Northern California during the early 80's.

Another option I've come across with selling real estate is declareing the shed un-permitted and allowing the buyer to accept is as such, or removing it for them. I've never had a buyer ask for one to be removed, but I did have one contract that stated the buyer will be responsible for the removal of an illegal structure within six months of moving in. They never did and there's nobody to inforce such an order. We just play the game.

Since every part of the country has different rules, this might not help, but a good real estate agent will do just about anything possible to make the deal happen. They deal with these things all the time and know all the tricks to get around most government interferance. What was your agents advice? Was he/she aware of the shed and it's stituation?

Good luck,
Eddie