Excavating with a compact tractor?

[frank29]

Could a tractor in the 35 h.p. range remove a large quantity of dirt? My house is 30'x 40' with full basement...along one of the 40' walls, there is 8' of earth at one end, tapering to 2' on the other end. There is also a fast taper going away from the house (from the corner with 8' of earth: the grade slopes down both along the 40' length of house and away from the house). The excavation needs to extend down to the basement slab level. The excavated dirt would be used to fill a low spot directly behind the home.

I have always been a do-it-yourselfer that has completed many projects in the face of doomsayers. When I couple this experience with the apparent capabilities of these compact tractors, I tend to think such a project would be doable. However, I have no experiece with tractors.

I know a business of excavating such an area would go bust quickly with such equipment; however, I think I would have fun doing it.....cost effectivenss is not a great concern (BUT, neither do I want to watch my grandkids complete all their schooling while I'm wearing out a tractor!)

Has anyone attemped such a project?

 

[OrangeTractor]

Yes, a tractor of that size could do the work, if it had a backhoe to loosen the dirt and a front end loader for hauling the dirt. its possible without a backhoe but it would take alot longer to do so. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif But I have yet to tackle a project in which the soil was compacted.
Steve

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Frank, there are things you can do, and things you should do with a small tractor. A properly equipped 35hp tractor will do what you want done, but it will be far more time consuming than doing it the right way. You might want to consider renting a track-hoe/mini-excavator that has about a 16' reach. It is small enough not to scare the heck out of your wife, but big enough to dig a hole quickly and accurately. Far faster than you'd be able to do with a tractor mounted backhoe.

By the way, they are a load of fun to operate.

 

[RonR]

The lay of the property would influence me.

I've never run a track hoe, but I'd consider renting a good sized bobcat to do it.

You can move a lot more dirt, faster, that way, than with a tractor alone. Also, getting a good slope is TONS easier with a skid steer over a tractor/FEL.

Have fun,
ron

 

[Birdhunter1]

Sounds like a bobcat wouldl be the way to go, but me being liek you I would consider doing it myself too.
So I'd go ahead and fill my rear tires, make sure you have a toothbar and "dig in" (no pun intended).

 

[3RRL]

Sounds to me you'd like to do it yourself, and you can. Also sounds like you have a sort of "ramp" to get to the basement level. With that in mind you could use a boxblade with rippers down to loosen the soil and the pull it out along with a bucket full in the FEL. That is assuming you have the room to do it. You'll get plenty of seat time. Pick out the corners witha backhoe if needed.

 

[roermo]

Hi and good luck you lucky dog, I would love to have a project like that.

A good friend of mine has to remind me weekly it seems that my 4110 is not a bulldozer. He works for CAT. There is words of wisdom there. I was going to buy a B/H for my small 4110, then I thougt how often would I use it compaired to renting a full size BH. So the money I save can go to a 3520 J/D,
I would rent what I need to that large job, you would find other better suited jobs for a tractor, which I find to be numoris.

Good luck and have fun. Once you get started post some photos.

By the way I am starting a brick job on my porch that I am trying to figure out a way to use the bucket on my tractor. Most likly will use it to haull the bricks from the street.

Roger.

 

[MossRoad]

Just remember that bobcats have low ground clearance, get stuck easily in mud or soft soil and are kind of tippy forward and backwards on slopes. They are also extremely powerful and if you are not experienced with operating them, it would be very easy to accidentally whack in to something... that being said, if you know what you are doing, they can get a job done very fast.

As Bob said, a small excavator would be an excellent choice. I've rented one in the past. They are easy to use, very stable and have a good reach so you don't have to keep re-positioning them all the time. Use it to get the stuff away from the foundation and stock pile it off to the side. If the soil is soft, ask the rental yard if they can put a large bucket on it so the job will go faster.

You can then rent a tractor or bobcat with an FEL to haul it away and spread it. Renting a tractor also gives you seat time, so see if you can rent one that would be of the size you are interested in.

I think I paid about $265.00 for a days rental on the excavator, but only needed it for 4 hours and got lots of money back on a 1/2 day rental. See if you can get one for a weekend rate.

 

[EddieWalker]

Given the size of your excavation and the amount of material your talking about, I'd question what a small trackhoe would be capable of. The same thing with a skid steer. They have small buckets and would take allot of trips to move anything.

Transporting the material is going to be the major part of this. Digging is the easy part.

The more material you can move at a time, the more effective you will be. A small CUT and skid steer will handle around a third of a yard. Three trips to move one yard of dirt. A full sized Loader/backhoe will haul a yard in it's bucket.

The skid steer is also pretty rough for hauling dirt back and forth. You will be pretty beat up hauling hundreds of yards of material back and forth with such a small load at a time.

You can do it, but I hope you have a pillow for your seat and have plenty of time!!!!!!!!!!!

Eddie

 

[frank29]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies, guys.

I am very pleased with the direction of the comments: even those recommending other equipment kept the door open for doing the job with a compact tractor. (I thought you guys were going to laugh at me!)

I think I will tackle it....all I need now is the tractor, ROFL. I have a million projects in mind. Besides the excavation, immediate plans include installing a septic tank and drain field, fabricate a segemented retaining wall and reroute my driveway, to name the big ones. I've got 5 acres to recreate.

Right now I am leaning toward a Kioti DK35 with FEL, back hoe, bush hog and a box blade....thanks mainly to this forum. I'm going to wait a couple of months to make the purchase (forget sleeping on it overnight, I want to be sure that what I know is right is in fact right).

 

[Regal]

<font color="blue"> </font> </font><font color="blue" class="small">( you could use a boxblade with rippers down to loosen the soil )</font>
Small machines tend to pack the ground as a result of many passes back and forth. The box blade w/ rippers or even a 3pt plow could tear up the soil. Then moving it is much easier. From my smaller projects, I've found that travel time between where I'm digging from and spreading to can be a problem. I have a 3pt dirt scoop and front dozer blade that are fine for filling holes etc. but for larger projects I have an old tumble bug (I think that's what it was called) that we made into a mini scraper using the 3pt to raise and lower with. Then you just keep going in circles, digging and dumping.
However, I would be reluctant to tackle a job the size you described with a CUT. Good luck and enjoy!

 

[chuck1975]

Yes, My dad did this back in '69 he cut a complete side of a hill out for the new home (2800sq). It was a family project. Dad had a "trip scoop" on the TO35 Ferguson. It was slow but by "scooping" the clay out he was able to dump it exactly where he wanted it. He cut the entire basement out and then called in the concrete trucks and we framed and poured the footers. He sub contracted the poured walls. That was a first in our area (poured walls). He also subed out the masonary. Outside is brick and Indiana limestone total maintainance free. Inside bearing wall limestone from basement to ceiling / roof joists. Everything else we did as a family and our friends also helped. That's probably what started me into the carpentry trade years later. Folks are gone now but I still own the house and still we have no foundation problems or water problems of any kind. Dad didn't even put in a sump pump. Today I don't think the town will grant a permit unless the house has one. We weren't in town / city limits back then.
Good luck with the project.
chuck

 

[Farwell]

If you have the time and the soil is workable with your CUT then go for it. I have a JD 2010 that is rated somewhere between 35 and 45 horse power that has a little bit bigger bucket than a CUT and I move a lot of dirt with it. I have a lot of sand that is easy to load and dump until I reach about 4 foot deep then the sand turns to sugar sand if it is not damp. I have not been able to dig a trench deeper than 5 feet because I get stuck in the sand. If I was digging into a hill side or slope like you have described my 2010 would work fine.
After you spend a few days digging you will know if you feel like finishing the job with your CUT or finding another way to get the job done. Also with your being new to tractors you will gain a ton of experience and confidence to do other projects. I have done so much digging on my place that my SO has threatened to hide the tractor keys and perish the thought of my ever getting a back hoe or a CAT.
Farwell

 

[jinman]

Frank, have you done the math for your project? With your description of your excavation as being 30' x 40' x 8' sloping to 2', you will be moving about 250 yards of compacted dirt. When it's loose, it will probably be 1/3 bigger or maybe 350 yards. The tractor you describe will have a bucket that will average 1/4 yard at best. That means around 1,400 buckets. of dirt. Do you really have that much time?

That's just the dirt digging/hauling. It doesn't account for the smoothing, grading, and leveling you will end up doing. If you run into a big rock, what then?

I'm going to suggest you rent a excavator or a full size loader backhoe for your project. Even then, it will be a challange. I am going to post three pictures. This is the excavation and foundation for my little 3-story, 2000 sq foot house that has slightly smaller footprint than you are doing. My excavation was not nearly as deep as you describe. They used a loader-backhoe with a 3' bucket to do the excavation. He hit some hard rock and they ended up bringing in a small dozer to finish the job. All-in-all, it was cheap and fast compared to my trying to do it with my own tractor. If you contract it out or rent the right equipment, I don't think you will ever regret it. If you buy a new tractor and overwork it, you may end up wishing you'd saved the tractor to haul off the spoils and landscape later. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Here's a picture of my groundbreaking.

 

[jinman]

Here is the completion at the end of the 1st day. About 2/3 has been dug and the spoils hauled away. I worked hauling spoils with my tractor all day as the LBH dug it out. Even so, he had to haul 1/3 himself because I could not keep up. My tractor holds about 1/2 yard per bucket.

 

[jinman]

In my opinion, this is what you want to get to. You want to get the excavation completed and and the foundation poured. There will be plenty of work for your tractor after you get this far. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[IslandTractor]

The Kioti D35 would be great. I would personally tackle this job with a CK20 TLB without hesitation. If you are not pressed for time, I don't think you'd have any trouble doing the work even with the CK20 and you'd save something in the range of $3000-4000 I think.

I have been surprised at how much the CK20 TLB can do but once you compare the numbers on the FEL and BH you can see that there is not a huge difference between these two tractors or even the CK30 for FEL/BH functions. To be sure the DK35 and CK30 outperform the CK20 but not by the same ratio as the engine horsepower at least in FEL and BH figures.

Here are the comparative numbers:
Tractor-- FEL --- Full lift at pivot --- Breakout
CK20 -- KL120 --- 1074lbs --- 1511lbs
CK30 -- KL130 --- 1155lbs --- 2046
DK35 -- KL1450 -- 1350lbs --- 2100

The backhoe figures:
Tractor -- BH -- DigForce -- DipperStick -- Reach
CK20 -- KB2365 -- 2875 ---- 1744 ---- 105"
CK30 -- KB2375 -- 2675 ---- 2105 ---- 116
DK35 same BH as CK30

As you can see, for digging operations, there are only relatively small advantages for the CK30 and DK35 over the CK20. For ground engaging operations things would be very different of course.

 

[frank29]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( For ground engaging operations things would be very different of course.)</font>For the benefit of a "wet behind the ears newbie", can you expand on this comment?

 

[frank29]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Frank, have you done the math for your project? ..................... Do you really have that much time? )</font>Yeah, I know it will be time intensive. It's just something I really want to do. This will be my first tractor and my first job....I hope the honeymoon lasts until the excavation is complete!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( If you run into a big rock, what then?)</font>I'm going to hope for the best. When the existing basement was dug, there were rocks; but, none were huge and all were loose. I do have a lot of exposed rock around me. 500' behind my house is a two acre rock. A mile behind my house there is exposed rock that extends for a couple thousand feet in length and about 300 feet wide. I am hoping for the best.

 

[IslandTractor]

By "ground engaging" (a very poor choice of words on my part in a thread discussing digging /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif) I meant plowing or dragging some implement behind the tractor like a box blade. To put it in a different way, the DK35 could easily out pull the CK20 in a tug of war. So long as traction is not a limiting factor, the bigger tractor will be able to put much more power to the ground as well as put more power through a PTO. The point of my original comment was that the DK35 will not "out dig" the CK20 tractor by much but that doesn't mean there are not significant overall performance differences between the two.

Thanks for pointing out the ambiguity.