F3990 Owner: Why can't I run B100?

[smartguyz]

Hi TBN friends!

I just became the owner of an F3990 Front Mower. In general it works really well.

I have been reading the owners manual and it states that you shouldn't run anything more than B5 diesel in it. (5% biodiesel). It gives no reason for the warning and admonition.

Given that B100 (100% biodiesel) would produce no soot, I'm very interested in using it and I did run it FOR YEARS in my GMC 6.5 diesel trucks with zero problems.

I don't understand why Kubota engines wouldn't run really well, and frankly it would eliminate the need for the DPF, OR the DPF would run indefinitely without turning on, since the DPF filter would never lose pressure (I am correct in thinking that the DPF sensors are actually pressure sensors in the DPF filter system?)

What do you guys think?

Rob

 

[smartguyz]

I think I found my answer: Biodiesel Barriers: Why New Diesel Engines Aren't Compatible With B100

"Manufacturers (Kubota?) decided to inject fuel into the cylinders just after the cylinder fires and the exhaust valve opens. At this point, the fuel vaporizes and the vapors move down the exhaust to the DPF and clean it. Because biodiesel is denser than conventional diesel fuel (it has a longer hydrocarbon chain) and has a higher distillation temperature and boiling point, it does not vaporize as easily. Some of the fuel ends up adhering to the cylinder wall and runs past the rings, diluting engine oil."

Sincerely,

Rob

 

[5030]

Besides B100 is an algae growing magnet

 

[arto98607]

Hi TBN friends!

I just became the owner of an F3990 Front Mower. In general it works really well.

......................snip...........................

Rob

When you get a chance please post us some photos of your new mower in action?

 

[smartguyz]

Besides B100 is an algae growing magnet

I respect your opinion and you may be right. That said, my experience over the last 12 years running 100% biodiesel hasn't included any algae incidents. I did need to slowly ramp up the Biodiesel/Regular Diesel percentage over several weeks (e.g., B5, B10, B20, B40... B100) and swap out fuel filters along the way, but I encountered zero problems. In fact, the cleaning capabilities left the fuel system pristinely clean, the increased lubricity made the engines run very smoothly (qualitative assessment) and the exhaust smelled like Chinese stir-fry.

Sincerely,

Rob

 

[smartguyz]

When you get a chance please post us some photos of your new mower in action?

I would be happy to. I'll have to give it a polish and wash first.

Sincerely,

Rob

 

[5030]

I respect your opinion and you may be right.

I am right. Been there and did it with my diesel pickup truck to the tune of a grand in new parts the exoskeletons of the algae (after I added biocide in hopes it would remedy it, clogged the fuel system, ruined the sending unit in the fuel tank, ate up the lift pump and caused me a lot of time installing everything new. It smells good but far as I'm concerned, I can do without the smell versus spending a grand and lots of shop time replacing ruined parts. I was lucky in as much as it didn't get to the injectors or that would have been twice the cost.

The issue with B100 or B20 and even ULSD (to a much lesser extent) is when it sits over time in a fuel tank, the tank sweats internally and produces moisture and that moisture combines with the fuel and provides an ideal growing medium for algae.

Why I religiously add a biocide to my fuel now and will from now on and for me there are only 2 viable ones, Power Kleen Biocide and Caterpillar Biocide additive. Neither is cheap but neither is a uchered fuel system

 

[smartguyz]

I am right. Been there and did it with my diesel pickup truck to the tune of a grand in new parts the exoskeletons of the algae (after I added biocide in hopes it would remedy it, clogged the fuel system, ruined the sending unit in the fuel tank, ate up the lift pump and caused me a lot of time installing everything new. It smells good but far as I'm concerned, I can do without the smell versus spending a grand and lots of shop time replacing ruined parts. I was lucky in as much as it didn't get to the injectors or that would have been twice the cost.

The issue with B100 or B20 and even ULSD (to a much lesser extent) is when it sits over time in a fuel tank, the tank sweats internally and produces moisture and that moisture combines with the fuel and provides an ideal growing medium for algae.

Why I religiously add a biocide to my fuel now and will from now on and for me there are only 2 viable ones, Power Kleen Biocide and Caterpillar Biocide additive. Neither is cheap but neither is a uchered fuel system

Thanks for the words of advice. I haven't used biocide, but I have used enzyme treatment, specifically Star Tron Enzyme Fuel Treatment Diesel Additive Small Engine

All the best,

Rob

 

[5030]

Not familiar with that. Before I retired from my day job at a local Freightliner dealer, SOP for them was dosing their bulk diesel tanks (ULSD underground) with either the CAT additive or the Bio-Kleen and in the winter they used Power Service winter additive in all their diesel trucks.

The Startron blurb don't say anything about a biocide in it and... if it had a biocide in it, there would be a USDA label attached to the bottle with cautionary statements included.

Different companies make all kinds of claims but if the labelling don't specifically say what it contains, then it don't.

Having been down that road, I prefer to err on the side of caution.

 

[CH4Ohio]

Guys, I have no knowledge of this algae problem in diesel. Is this only a problem with biodiesel, or does it happen with all diesel fuel?

 

[diesel85]

There are additives by PowerService that can mitigate algae. I add it to my fuel tanks once a year, even up in the northeast...

 

[smartguyz]

Not familiar with that. Before I retired from my day job at a local Freightliner dealer, SOP for them was dosing their bulk diesel tanks (ULSD underground) with either the CAT additive or the Bio-Kleen and in the winter they used Power Service winter additive in all their diesel trucks.

The Startron blurb don't say anything about a biocide in it and... if it had a biocide in it, there would be a USDA label attached to the bottle with cautionary statements included.

Different companies make all kinds of claims but if the labelling don't specifically say what it contains, then it don't.

Having been down that road, I prefer to err on the side of caution.

I chose the Startron Enzyme treatment because I had read that:

1. Biocides kill the algae, but don't break the algae down. As a result, it leaves behind the exoskeletons which cause problems, as you noted.
2. The enzymes break down the algae at the molecular level, thus both killing the algae and disintegrating what's left of them.
3. The theory, as I understand it, is that the enzymatic method of control will break down the algae to a level where it no longer plugs the filters, pickup screens, pumps, etc. but the left-over organic materials are small enough to be simply run through the fuel system and combusted in the engine without incident.

That's why I chose the Startron. I had what I believe is the beginning of an algae growth in the fuel tank of my diesel generator. Based on my experience, I believe that Startron took care of it. I have NOT swapped out the fuel. The fuel appears clear now. Changing the fuel filters and checking out the contents of the filters confirms that any algae has been broken down sufficiently to allow for normal system operation. I've been running the generator without any problems.

Thanks,

Rob

 

[smartguyz]

Guys, I have no knowledge of this algae problem in diesel. Is this only a problem with biodiesel, or does it happen with all diesel fuel?

It happens with all diesel fuels.

-Rob

 

[CH4Ohio]

It happens with all diesel fuels.

-Rob

Thanks. I move diesel around in 5-gallon cans and don't have any that's sitting in a large tank for any amount of time. I guess that's why I've been able to avoid this problem. I do use stabilizer over the winter or when not in use for several months, but not because of algae. Just what I needed -- something else to worry about.

Appreciate the explanation. Thanks.

 

[Unclewillie]

I respect your opinion and you may be right. That said, my experience over the last 12 years running 100% biodiesel hasn't included any algae incidents. I did need to slowly ramp up the Biodiesel/Regular Diesel percentage over several weeks (e.g., B5, B10, B20, B40... B100) and swap out fuel filters along the way, but I encountered zero problems. In fact, the cleaning capabilities left the fuel system pristinely clean, the increased lubricity made the engines run very smoothly (qualitative assessment) and the exhaust smelled like Chinese stir-fry.

Sincerely,

Rob

ummm Chinese stir-fry.

 

[Hay Dude]

Never, ever had an algae problem. I don’t know if it’s because I use them so much and keep adding new fuel, or just good clean living?
I do use power service white bottle sometimes in the winter.
Im convinced it’s where you buy fuel and how long your diesel powered units sit.
An old timer told me many many years ago if it needs to sit a long time, to FILL the tank.

 

[5030]

An old timer told me many many years ago if it needs to sit a long time, to FILL the tank.

Good advice. The less space between the fuel and the open to the air tank surface means less condensation which equals less water which promotes microbial growth. Keep my fuel tanks topped off all the time when sitting unused.

 

[Hay Dude]

I also fill my small tanks, weed wackers, chain saws, concrete saw, pump, etc.
Most guys empty them. Not me.
Fill the tanks and never had a problem.

 

[5030]

I also fill my small tanks, weed wackers, chain saws, concrete saw, pump, etc.
Most guys empty them. Not me.
Fill the tanks and never had a problem.

I do run my chainsaws dry when not being used. Other than that, same deal as you. I do use Stihl pre packaged pre mix which has some sort of stabilizer in it.