Fast- Need Hot Water Heater Help

[rox]

We are selling my husband's restaurant becaue the guy we sold it to quit paying and closed the doors. So we have it back. I have a thread on this in Related Topics so I won't repeat everything here. It looks like we have it sold but we come to find out that possibly the water heater was replaced by a leased unit. I am hoping that someone here can tell me how much a Rheme 72 gallon commercial Hot Water Heater costs. You have to have a commercial grade hot water heater in a restaurant, just the home owner models are not sufficient.

We have a very good plumber but he is so busy with the Wisconsin cold weather that he just isn't getting back to me with prices. I even had our attorney call him, geesh. If you could give me any information on the cost of a 72 gallong Rheme commercial hot water heater I would be most gratefull.

 

[Chuck52]

Rheem Commercial Water Heater - Compare Prices, Reviews and Buy at NexTag - Price - Review


Chuck

 

[rox]

Chuck, thanks a LOT. I just e-mailed that link to our attorney. Ours is a tank model G72-250 so it looks like it is pretty expensive. I never even searched the internet for prices as I didn't think anyone would have a price out there for a commericail HWH. I have been agonizing over this unknown cost all week. Many many thanks.

 

[Chuck52]

Rox,

That site didn't seem to have that particular model, but this one does:

Rheem G72-250-LP Propane 72 250,000 71-1/16" 26-1/4" 6"590

There are probably supply houses near your restaurant that carry them, but at least this gives you a ballpark figure for the cost.

Chuck

 

[2manyrocks]

Where is this water heater located? If the water heater is a fixture and is installed on real estate without a stipulation by the real estate owner that it is to remain removable personal property, it becomes part of the real estate. If notice of the lease relationship is not perfected by a filing in the real estate records or in the UCC records prior to the time that another person acquires title to the underlying real estate, the lessor of the water heater loses title.

A fixture is an item of personal property that is so affixed to the underlying real estate that it becomes part of the underlying real estate.

Used commercial water heaters may not have any resale value depending upon whether local codes will allow them to be reinstalled. Some will not reinstall them anyway because of products liability fears.

The difference between a residential water heater and a commercial water heater is that the commercial version must be built to ASME standards by certified welders using approved materials.

If the lessor perfected its rights to retain the water heater, they probably don't want to yank it out and have to throw it away.

 

[ToadHill]

Can you buy out the lease and keep the heater, might be a less costly solution.

 

[sellercreek]

Buying the lease may be the best option.

If you do have to go new, I've always been happy with Grainger. They are quick and prices are very competitive.
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/guideBrowse.shtml

Good luck.

 

[2manyrocks]

check with your attorney first, but my argument to the lessor would be something like this.

You had a land sales contract in which you retained rights to the property if you were not paid. Your rights were perfected by the appropriate filing in the real estate records. The claimed water heater lessor did not obtain your prior consent to install the water heater on a lease basis. Their subsequent filing of a UCC can't retroactively convert an improvement to real estate in which you had retained rights by proper filings in your local real estate filings office back into their personal property that can be removed. They knew they were taking this risk when they installed the water heater without following the correct procedures on the front end.

If they now want the water heater, they cannot come on your property to remove it without a court order. They have the burden of proving that they have rights superior to yours to this water heater.

Even if they win the rights to a court order to remove the water heater, they have to pay the costs of removal and the odds are that it cannot be reused elsewhere because of codes and because of the likelihood of it being damaged in the move. It's a commercial water heater that probably requires a permit for installation, and either the plumbing inspector or the boiler inspector should red tag the reinstallation of a used water heater.

Most customers aren't going to foot the bill to install a used water heater not knowing what life expectancy it has left and not having a warranty and not even knowing if it is still safe to use.

The lessor has already received $xxxx of rent money for the heater which may (or may not) have paid their costs of the heater with some profit to them.

But if they want to compromise rather than take their chances, you'll give them a couple of hundred dollars you'd have to pay your attorney to go to court if it is still a useable heater in working condition.

I don't think they'll accept olive oil.

 

[kenmac]

The difference between a residential water heater and a commercial water heater is that the commercial version must be built to ASME standards by certified welders using approved materials.

There are many reasons to have commerical for a resturant( including the temp. of the water) the reason you listed isn't 1 of them (that I'am aware of ) ( at least not here)

 

[Unclebuck257]

rox,

We now own a restaurant too and believe me, I am very well aware of having to take back a restaurant property from someone who stops paying etc. and then all the possible follow up problems such as you are describing. Buying that water heater from whoever it was leased from is an excellent idea and direction to take if you don't act like you really want it. Afterall, it's not like it's the dishwasher or other inside restaurant equipment. The lesser probably can't remove it, store it, and reinstall in a new place in an economically feasible way for them. I'd give it a good shot before trying to buy a new one, IF it's in pretty new condition and not too old itself.

 

[2manyrocks]

What kind of water heater passes for commercial installation depends on your local codes. Sometimes controlled by the plumbing code and sometimes controlled by the boiler and pressure vessel code, and if carefully examined, usually there is an overlap with the boiler guys sometimes not bothering with stand alone commercial water heaters. In the south, usually the boiler inspectors aren't as intense as they are in the northeast.

But any inspector is going to wary of allowing a used unit to be reinstalled. Just ask, "Is this a flood unit?" in front of an inspector....

 

[kenmac]

If it's something that must be inspected. check with the local code officials. A water ( in most places ) isn't consitered a boiler because it is under 200,000 BTU. 200,000 BTU & above it considered a boiler & must be certified as a boiler. That's how all the tankless water heater manufactures get around boiler certification on their tankless water heaters. They are under 200,000 BTU. They are around 199,000 BTU. Most areas ( not all) in the US have adopted all or some of the international plumbing , Gas, building, HVAC codes. I have no idea what they allow or donot allow in France

 

[rox]

Thanks everybody. I am just kicking myself for not posting on TBN sooner. I was hoping to keep this thread just to the information about Hot water heaters and the sale issues in my other thread in related topics. ALL of the information everyone was kind enough to post is very valuable and helpfull to me. Our attorney has a used commercial hot water heater a Bock Model 72PG. Y commercial Gas Heaters. Looks like 68 gallon, 199,000 BTU that he is will to just give us I don't even have to trade him in olive oil.

I'll continue with the legal and tactical aspects in my other thread.

 

[rox]

rox,

We now own a restaurant too and believe me, I am very well aware of having to take back a restaurant property from someone who stops paying etc. and then all the possible follow up problems such as you are describing. Buying that water heater from whoever it was leased from is an excellent idea and direction to take if you don't act like you really want it. Afterall, it's not like it's the dishwasher or other inside restaurant equipment. The lesser probably can't remove it, store it, and reinstall in a new place in an economically feasible way for them. I'd give it a good shot before trying to buy a new one, IF it's in pretty new condition and not too old itself.

Unclebuck- Yeah it really does suck to take back a restaurant. By chance a good friend of my husband's, another chef owner just a few years older than us, stopped by our olive farm for a visit a couple years ago. He owned a restaurant in Seattle and the same thing happened to him, they guy he sold it to and financed, closed the doors. He went back in very quickly and re-opened the restaurant and told us the difficulties he went through. He also told us something very important. He said if the same thing ever happened to us to never re-open the restaurant just sell it as quickly as possible.

Those words of wisdom were practically the first thing that my husband and myself thought of right after we found out. Thus we very quickly made the decision to sell it and it saved us a lot of time trying to figure out the best course of action etc. I think when you get a little older and dare I say wiser, I am more willing to act on advice rather than going out and blazing new trails doing it my way. I think that is why I enjoy TBN so much becasue it is literally chocked full of good advice. Look at all the good advice I got on a commercial hot water heater, all I neeed to do was ask. I think this site is better than Wikipedia...

 

[SPIKER]

ROX: did the resteraunt have a hot water heater to begin with when it was sold?

if so then you may be able to keep the unit anyhow even if it is a lease and the leaseee would still be responsible for the equipment as installed into your place. IF you sold it with working hot water then it should still have such...

also note that you do not have any lease agreement with the company that leased it. Again they are insured for failure to pay leases and no longer your responsibility to pay for it or return it.

BUT I'm not familiar with laws over there. just my opinion.

mark

 

[DocHeb]

BUT I'm not familiar with laws over there. just my opinion.

mark

Just as an aside, the restaurant is in suburban Milwaukee, WI.