FEL seems weak- how to check

[RandyHut]

I have a 2011 Mahindra 2816 gear machine with 111 hrs. The FEL seems weak and while dumping the bucket it gets to a point and seems to slow down then goes ahead and dumps the rest of the way. If i try to pick up a whole bucket of gravel from a pile it just doesn't seam to want to pick it up if i get into the pile to far. How can it be checked? It will pick up a whole bucket, it just seems slow doing it.

Thanks
Randy

 

[newbury]

Get a pressure gauge on it. < $65
Search here.
/edit - you need to check out the size and type of your fittings to make sure they hook up properly. For example my B7610 uses a different size than my M4700.

 

[kennyd]

We sell a pressure gauge if you don't want to source the parts to build one for yourself, we also have a video posted showing how to use it.

Ken's Bolt on Grab Hooks <<Hydraulics>>

 

[Egon]

For a quick check unhook and then rehook all the quick dissconects. Make sure the linkage is oiled and working properly.

 

[LD1]

The way you describe the dump, sounds like you aren't using regen dumping a loaded bucket, gravity is dumping too fast and pulling in air. Once the bucket reached the point gravity isn't trying to dump anymore, it pauses while the cylinder refills with oil and pushes the air out.

Not being able to lift out of a pile can all be in technique. Digging deep into the bottom of a pile and trying to lift, you are trying to lift way more than just what's in the bucket.

To verify...pressure guage will show. But I am betting it ain't your issue.

 

[4570Man]

A tractor can't stab in a pile and just lift it up. The only accurate way is to check the pressure.

 

[stuckmotor]

The pressure guage seems like the way to go. What occurred to me is to measure out the maximum weight your loader is meant to lift, place it in the bucket and try to lift it. This probably wouldn't be completely accurate if the rating is specified at the pins but it should be close.

 

[4570Man]

The pressure guage seems like the way to go. What occurred to me is to measure out the maximum weight your loader is meant to lift, place it in the bucket and try to lift it. This probably wouldn't be completely accurate if the rating is specified at the pins but it should be close.

Unless you are using lead the bucket won't hold enough material to reach maximum capacity.

 

[LD1]

And max capacity is to max height. You can lift alot more than that at ground level

 

[Texasmark]

And max capacity is to max height. You can lift alot more than that AR ground level

Okayeeeee what has essentially changed? Seems to me that the Foot-lbs equation would be that the lbs were the same but from a foot standpoint, the moment of inertia would be a lot longer theoretically if the arms were straight out vs being almost vertical. At 90 degrees the feet would be about zero where at 0 degrees they would be at a max.

 

[LD1]

Easy, the angle of the cylinder changed.

This was discussed in length about a month ago.

To find the force of a cylinder mounted on an angle, you multiply the total hydraulic force by the Sine of that angle.

So lets say at ground level the cylinder is at 30 degrees. Raise it may be like 10 degrees.

Sin30 = .5
sin10 = .17

So if the cylinder can straight-line push with 2000# of force, with that cylinder mounted on a:
30 degree angle, there is 2000 x 0.5= 1000# of LIFT force
10 degree angle, there is 2000 x 0.17 = 340# of LIFT force

See the difference?

 

[J_J]

A FEL with a good pump will never lift at max cyl capacity.

The cyl is always at an angle, and gets worse with lift.

Probably starts at 45 to 65 degrees and decreases as you lift.

Best lifting angle is when the lifting point is 90 degrees to the cyl lifting point.

You can regain some lifting potential by tilting the bucket back over the lifting pins.

2 in bore, 1 in shaft at 3000 psi = 9425 lbs X2 = 18,850 lbs

--------------------at 45 degrees = 6664 lbs X2 = 13,328 lbs

--------------------at 20 degrees = 3223 lbs X2 = 6446 lbs

 

[oldballs]

Who'd thunk that reading a tractor site, one would have to recall his trigonometry and physics classes...........ah heck, forget that. Take the word of the guys that really know.

 

[4570Man]

Okayeeeee what has essentially changed? Seems to me that the Foot-lbs equation would be that the lbs were the same but from a foot standpoint, the moment of inertia would be a lot longer theoretically if the arms were straight out vs being almost vertical. At 90 degrees the feet would be about zero where at 0 degrees they would be at a max.

This is not a forklift. A tractor does not lift vertical with a vertical cylinder.

 

[J_J]

Of course not. 90 degrees is the angle that the cyl maximum force is achieved.

That's a why I put the angles in there.

The angle is changing as you lift

 

[stuckmotor]

If you think all that figuring is difficult, wait until you try long division.

Who'd thunk that reading a tractor site, one would have to recall his trigonometry and physics classes...........ah heck, forget that. Take the word of the guys that really know.

 

[Texasmark]

Easy, the angle of the cylinder changed.

This was discussed in length about a month ago.

To find the force of a cylinder mounted on an angle, you multiply the total hydraulic force by the Sine of that angle.

So lets say at ground level the cylinder is at 30 degrees. Raise it may be like 10 degrees.

Sin30 = .5
sin10 = .17

So if the cylinder can straight-line push with 2000# of force, with that cylinder mounted on a:
30 degree angle, there is 2000 x 0.5= 1000# of LIFT force
10 degree angle, there is 2000 x 0.17 = 340# of LIFT force

See the difference?

Okayeee again. So the cylinder angle efficiency explains why my bucket tilting mechanism (not to be confused with the upper cut loaders with the constant leveling functional arm) has an additional arm that does the tilting while the cylinder pressure remains inline. The old JD 152 as I recall the number of the loader I once had, didn't have this extra arm. Either JD engineers didn't know about it or figured they didn't need it......with an 8' bucket on a 70 hp 2010?

 

[Tx Jim]

Okayeee again. So the cylinder angle efficiency explains why my bucket tilting mechanism (not to be confused with the upper cut loaders with the constant leveling functional arm) has an additional arm that does the tilting while the cylinder pressure remains inline. The old JD 152 as I recall the number of the loader I once had, didn't have this extra arm. Either JD engineers didn't know about it or figured they didn't need it......with an 8' bucket on a 70 hp 2010?

Was your JD 2010 ind or ag? BTW 2010 was only 46.86 HP not 70

 

[LD1]

Okayeee again. So the cylinder angle efficiency explains why my bucket tilting mechanism (not to be confused with the upper cut loaders with the constant leveling functional arm) has an additional arm that does the tilting while the cylinder pressure remains inline. The old JD 152 as I recall the number of the loader I once had, didn't have this extra arm. Either JD engineers didn't know about it or figured they didn't need it......with an 8' bucket on a 70 hp 2010?

I have no idea at all what you are asking

 

[Tx Jim]

LD1
I might be wrong but I think TxMark is referring to bucket linkages similar to parts key 12 on the model 720 FEL on a JD ind 2010