Fence Questions

[briancreed]

This is my first post, but I have been lurking around here for a while... You guys definitely know whats going on. I don't know if it's customary for a first time poster to seek advice, but I guess I'll give'r a whirl.

I recently bought 80 acres that needs completely refenced. I've been around farms all my life, so I know a thing or two about fencing, but I am by no means an expert. I'd like to build a fence that will last a lifetime, with the usual repairs and upkeep of course.

My plan is to use 4" pipe for the corners, braced with 8' long 2 7/8" pipe top and bottom and a diagonal. I am going to try to attach a sketch to show what I'm talking about. I plan on using these double h-braces at all corners, and every 330' or 660', not sure which (advice?). I am going to run 47" Red Brand Field Fence (9 guage top and bottom wires) around the whole property, with a hot wire across the top through t-post caps, and one in the middle.

I plan on using 6' t-posts spaced every 12', with 52" sticking above the earth.

I will be containing cows, horses, and possibly sheep and goats. Also, I'd like to keep it semi-dog proof (another plus for the field fence).

Is the design on these h-braces adequate? Do I need the cross bar? What size of pipe should I use (sch 30, sch 40, etc) I plan on sinking the posts 6' in the ground (skid steer with auger rental), and concreting them in. I also considered filling the pulling post to the top with concrete before it is capped.

What would be a fair price to pay a welder to notch and weld these pipes on for me?

How often should I run another h-brace to hold up the fence? Obviously for all corners, grade changes, etc, but how often on a straight stretch?

And last but not least, how should I attach the field fence to the corner posts? I've never put it up before, so I have no idea. I was thinking of stretching it tight like barb wire and then wrapping the ends around the post, but not sure how to go about this.


Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future, so I apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge.

 

[RWolf]

I think it's more than adequate. When I redo my fence I'll be using a standard "H" brace and make sure that it's in the ground at least 3ft in concrete. I prefer my "t" poles to be 10 feet apart if keeping cattle. When you say field wire I assume you're meaning barbless wire. If so then hears how I'd accomplish it. Top strand barbed, next 3 strands barbless, 4ft. goat wire in front of that. Main reason for barb on top is horse will have a bit more respect on the fence and won't be to eager to lean on/over for that tasty morsal on the other side. Should keep all other critters in there place without any problems.

Good luck.

 

[briancreed]

I am going to put 2 electrified wires on the fence to prevent the leaning/rubbing issues that both the horses and cows seem to have.

I will attach a picture of the fence I plan on using.

I guess with the h-braces, I'd like to know if I need the diagonal brace, like the sketch above, or if top and bottom braces alone will be adequate, like the sketch below.

 

[RWolf]

If everything is welded and you sufficiant depth then I don't see why you'd need diagnoils. Generally the way it seems to be done around here is using your last picture shaped into a corner brace with a single "h" brace every 100ft. This will allow that should the wire be broken through you'll have a mounting/stress point without redoing the entire strand. I personally am not a big fan of electric. I guess I'm more old school. You're wire looks fine but I'd still back it with barbless for added strength. I've seen bulls walk through most wire fences and some have jumped 5" fences to get to the neighbors cows.

 

[briancreed]

I don't plan on keeping any bulls, but I guess it could happen in the future. I never thought about backing it with barbless wire, but that is not a bad idea.

I had the field fence with barb wire on top around 10 acres before, and the horses just leaned right over the barb wire, leading to scratches on their necks/heads. I put a hot wire on the top and that prevented that mess.

While this will occasionally hold horses, that will not be the main purpose. I will mainly be keeping cows in with it, and using it for a perimeter fence. I plan on fencing 10 acres with the v-mesh and pipe fence for the horses...just as soon as I learn to weld!

What would be a decent price to pay someone to weld the h-braces up for me? I'm in NE Oklahoma...

I understand about putting the h-braces every 100' in case it is broken, but that would get real pricey real quick. If a fence is broken, I can either splice it back together, or put an h-brace in at the specified interval and go from there.

 

[Bigtwin]

There was an outfit advertsing metal corner posts in the Daily Oklahoman and I think they were located in Purcell. I can't recall the name of the business.

 

[drjay9051]

Heres my $.02,

Go to the website for electrobraid (electrobraid.com) Download the install manual. Very clear instruction on bracing. No need to weld or use pipe. Just go with 7 foot or 8 foot posts 5-6 in diameter. Bury 3 feet deep. I know it is for electrobraid but applies to wire as well. I use a single H brace and use the tensioning wire as shown in the electobraid manual. Actually I tensioned using electrobraid instead of brace wire. I agree NO BARB WIRE for horses. Their hide is not cowhide. I have used electrobraid as a top wire as well as 4 strand braid for horses in some paddocks. If installed properly (good grounding) it works like a charm. I also prefer electrobraid to other brands since it has a very high tensile strenght and has copper woven into the braid as opposed to other material.

I would think a brace every several hundred feet is plenty. My only concern is field fence for horses could equal caught foot = fracture= dead horse. However you mentioned v mesh or no climb- good idea.

 

[briancreed]

I'm fairly familiar with building fences, not an expert by any means, but familiar with the general concepts.

My goal is to overbuild corners so I never have to replace them. Hence the six foot depth, welded pipe, and overbracing. I realize I'll have to go back and mend fence, probably restretch it, but I think if I put in the time at first I can build a fence that will far outlast me.

I have built several fences using the 6"x8' treated posts set 3' deep, with the typical h-brace. I have also seen a lot of these rot, posts break, lean, concrete footings pull out, etc. I do not want to have to go back and replace my h-braces.

I realize by going 6' deep is probably more than needed, but that's what I'm looking for. The pipe comes in 21' lengths, so that will leave me with 4.5 feet sticking out if I cut them in half. Perfect.

I've had horses in barbed wire before, besides scratches and scrapes I've been pretty lucky and had no injuries.

The field fence will mainly be for cows, not horses. However, I will have electrified strands on it to keep the horses back when theyre in there. There are no neighboring horses, which is usually where you run into trouble. There will also be caps on all of the t-posts to prevent them from being impaled.

My main questions are as follows:

Do I need the diagonal cross brace for the corners?

Another design I have seen is to have a single h-brace with a deadman, as I have attempted to sketch below. How is the deadman anchored in the ground? Welded to a pipe set in a footing? Set in a 3-4' deep footing as far down as the angle will allow?

Would putting up single h-braces, or a single post with a deadman on both sides (as sketched below), every 330' be adequate? This is the length of the rolls.

Thanks again.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Since no one else has mentioned it, first off all, welcome to the site. And, as you can see by the replies so far, there is certainly no harm in starting your first post with a question.

I like your first "H" brace sketch with the diagonals myself. I also think a single post with two angles would be an adequate line brace.

That said, I just "Goodle"d up Red Brand Fencing and they do indeed have a website with downloadable installation and bracing guides. I stopped when I saw how long the bracing guide was taking to download though.

I have no personal experiance with Red Brand though I know plenty of horse people like it. Most of the installs for horses that I see have a board across the top to negate the effects of leaning but electric will do as much. Having used fencing from a number of other suppliers, I always study up on the manufactures recomendations first. That is not to say that I adhere to them though.

 

[briancreed]

Thanks for the welcome! I have found a ton of useful information on this site, and I really appreciate all of the replies I have received so far.

The first h-brace with the diagonals would be the strongest I'm sure, but also the most expensive. The least expensive would be the single h with the deadman, but I am not sure how it is built (how the deadman is anchored to the ground). I imagine sinking the posts for the h-brace 6' deep it would be plenty sturdy.

I have seen the floating deadman, with a band used for tension and the deadman itself on a piece of wood, concrete, etc, but I don't want a band of wire that close to the ground, that spells trouble to me (think hooves, tangles, cuts, sprains, breaks, etc).

Thanks again for all of the advice guys! Hopefully somebody can explain to me how the deadman brace is built.

I will be giving a detailed post when I do build the fence, so everybody can see exactly what I do. I've noticed TBN users like pics!