Fencing 60 acres

David72645 · Jun 2, 2019

Hi; I'm still shopping for my first tractor but want to figure out what attachments I need to pick the right sized tractor. I have the option of paying someone to fence the perimeter of my 60 acre property or taking that money and buying the tractor and attachments to do the job myself. As I'm starting from scratch, but I'm still on a budget (based on the cost of paying someone), what attachments would be best to put up all the fencing? If it matters, its woven wire (sheep) fencing.

So far, my research suggests an auger, either PTO or loader mount would be at the top of the list to install Hs. Alternatively there are post pounders.

I don't see a great way to put in T-Posts with the tractor other than a T-Post driver https://www.homedepot.com/p/Striker-Tools-Air-Operated-Post-Driver-43000/202074470 which runs off an air compressor. I could carry a generator and air compressor in the FEL to power the post pounder. Anything better than that using the tractor? I've seen T-posts pushed in with the loader but I expect they would bend unless the soil is just right.

I'll have to clear the perimeter path for the fencing. I'll use a chainsaw or push down small trees with the FEL. Perhaps a stump remover? A bush hog would then further clear the path for the fence. I could get a PTO chipper for the 6" or so trees. I have not moved there yet and don't know the size of the trees exactly.

I can carry T-Posts and cement for Hs in the FEL.

There are several ways to use the tractor to stretch fence. I've seen the tractor as an anchor for a come-along; the tractor can drive and stretch; the tractor would be parked and the fence pulled with a winch; I've seen very expensive devices that carry the fence and stretch it. GFF2 - Hydraulic Fencing Machine - YouTube What do you find to be the best way to leverage the tractor to stretch fence?

What else should I consider in trying to justify buying this tractor to make fence installation as easy as possible?

quicksandfarmer · Jun 3, 2019

What I find the tractor most useful for is just moving the fence materials around, that stuff is heavy, your fence will probably weigh thousands of pounds.

You don't say what the shape or dimensions of your land is, or what kind of fence you are thinking of. If it's just a rectangle and you only want wooden posts at corners and gates, you probably would have under 20 posts. For that number an auger is a reasonable tool.

The pneumatic driver from Home Depot looks interesting, but the reviews are pretty mixed, with a couple of people saying it's no less work than a manual pounder. One reviewer said he drove 100 posts in 16 hours, that's about ten minutes a post!

I find a wagon is indispensable when fence building, put all the tools, supplies and equipment in it. You don't want to use the bucket because you'll want it for moving posts and things around. I like to have forks on the bucket, the auger on the back of the tractor and pull the wagon with the rider mower.

Even with all the right tools it's hard work.

David72645 · Jun 3, 2019

quicksandfarmer Thanks. Its 60 acres rectangular. It will be sheep fencing (woven wire). I've done a lot of fencing where I live now with my neighbors small tractor and auger, but was hoping to spend my way out of hard work on my new place.

leonz · Jun 3, 2019

David72645 said:
quicksandfarmer Thanks. Its 60 acres rectangular. It will be sheep fencing (woven wire). I've done a lot of fencing where I live now with my neighbors small tractor and auger, but was hoping to spend my way out of hard work on my new place.

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It will be less expensive for you to have a pasture fence contractor do the work for you as they have the machinery to drive the posts or drill the post holes and set the posts and stretch the fence as they work with one complete machine that does every thing in one pass.
You still need to clear fence line and renting a small dozer to peel back the fence line row with a six way blade wide enough to have double the mower width to let you turn around and mow in the opposite direction to keep the brush down in two passes and it will help you get rid of all the weed trees that are obviously second growth trees.

Are you intent on making sheep milk or sheep butter or raising them for meat or kosher or Halal meat sales? How much feed are you planning on providing in the non pasture months? Will you be buying hay?

Are you going to have border collies for herding or are you intent on herding by horseback?
Are you going to have guard llamas, guard donkeys, guard steers used as guard animals, Great Pyranees, Akbash Marema, Kangal, Anatolian Shepard, Kuvasz,Tibetan Mastiff, Pyrenean Mastiff or Polish Tatra? you need to have more than one pup to do this as there is safety in numbers for the sheep and the guard dogs.

You also have to keep in mind that the dogs will have to live inside the fencing and they will want to get out as they are nomadic dogs in the scheme of things as there was no such thing as fences when these dogs were bred for the guarding and herding work they do.

The ground has to be clear of brush and weed trees to allow the fence to be set at ground level as much as possible to protect the live stock if you are not intent on using 6-8 foot woven fencing? regardless of the fence type you will need to have a several guard dogs that will live with the sheep from puppy age to become part of the flock to instinctually assure they protect "their" family.

Using a fencing contractor for this job will be faster and cost less per foot to do and they can obtain fencing at a lower cost per foot as they buy tens of thousands of feet of fencing and supplies from vey large fencing suppliers that sell to vineyards or from the steel mills where it is made.

The pasture fence contractor will do the entire job in one pass and tension the woven fence as well as set the mid line anchor posts
and the corner tensioner posts in concrete to keep everything in line for you. adding a single string of electrified fence can be done
at this time too with smooth wire.

Are you in intent on blocking up the rectangular pasture for rotation grazing? Do you know what size pasture blocks you want for the sixty acres whether it is in 5, 10 acres or 5 acres blocks?

Will you be using electrified movable tape fence with car wheels to hold the posts in each fence block??

Rotating grazing pastures keeps pasture land healthy as long as its taken care of with seeding and mowing when the grazing season is over.

With the entire fence line you need to be able to enter entire outside perimeter to mow the fence line to keep the brush back and you will need to keep the flock far enough away from the fence line while mowing to prevent a panic and eliminate the chance of the sheep suffocating each other trying to escape the noise and vibration from the mowing.

What if any provision have you made for watering the livestock? are you planning on running a seasonal water line to small water troughs or Ritchie waterers at mid points in the pasture along with mineral and salt feeders.

Will you be building seasonal shelters in the pasture or pastures to protect the sheep from bad weather and also have a place where you can feed them and examine them making sure all the animals are in one place to allow any sick animals to be cut out of the heard and diverted to sick pens?

Do you intend on doing all your own hoof trimming and hoof dipping on a seasonal basis or hiring a large animal veterinarian to do this?

You have to be able to check on the sheep often during grazing season as bloat will be an issue in rich grasses and plan on having a piece of smooth hose with you to stuff down their throats to relieve the animal of the gas in its gut.

You will find that keeping your sheep in smaller dry lots with the guard animals will be easier and safer for the you and animals and allow you
check on them frequently during the lambing season and at other times and to also have an area to take care of the sheep with a squeeze chute and also have safe housing for them and the dry lots will let you have numerous waterers for them and salt and mineral feeders.

Do you have a ready market for wool in this area? Are you planning on a brood herd environment to sell breeding animals?

Animals are a lot of work and worry for the owner so the closer they are to you the less time you need to work them and to oversee their care and provide food and summer shelter and a winter barn to protect them and feed them as well.

Egon · Jun 3, 2019

The fence wire you are planing on might be best installed by two to three men.

Clearing the fence line and setting posts you can easily do yourself. For T post holes make a sturdy spike that can be driven in with the loader for the hole and then insert the T post.

MH8675309 · Jun 3, 2019

Leonz - lots a questions - you'll scare this fella off before he gets started.

David72645 Fencing is not really that hard but is time consuming. Quicksand is right about the wagon - mine is indispensable and I use it year round for all sorts of stuff. Post pounding with a hand pounder is not that bad either.

Rmart30 · Jun 3, 2019

MH8675309 said:
Leonz - lots a questions - you'll scare this fella off before he gets started.

David72645 Fencing is not really that hard but is time consuming. Quicksand is right about the wagon - mine is indispensable and I use it year round for all sorts of stuff. Post pounding with a hand pounder is not that bad either.

Unless ya have arthritis and tendonitis.

If you are using steel posts not counting your corners id buy one of these and sell it when done. https://www.homedepot.com/p/TITAN-P...VkorICh1MiANwEAQYAiABEgJJe_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Video showing quick work Titan PGD3875 Gas-Powered Post Driver - YouTube

joeu235 · Jun 3, 2019

What type of soil do you have?

I have a bunch of equipment but still paid a guy just to drive the t posts on a 1600' fence I built a while back. I set all the H brace and ran the bottom wire. He drove all the t posts in a couple hours with a hand held gas powered driver. One of the best $400 spent.

grsthegreat · Jun 3, 2019

All you need is a 3 point auger. With 8 tip for 4x4 post or a 12 bit for 6x6. Ive fenced and cross fenced my 30 acre property and was not an issue. As for the wire unrolled, I built my own for about $60.00 in parts and an hours time. If you can't fab one, a welding shop can or plan on spending at least $600 for a factory unit. You can use the tractors pull strength and a chain to tighten fence. I use a manual post pounder and wait until after spring thaw to set t posts. Those hydraulic units are very heavy and awkward to lift over posts and to remove in my opinion. Ive used them to set posts in past, and in my humble opinion wasn't worth the effort. A fence grabber to hook fence to tractor was made with 2 pieces of angle iron, 3 grade 8 bolts and some scrap rebar.

David72645 · Jun 3, 2019

Leonz Thanks for taking the time and interest for your reply. I've been sheep farming for about four years; goats for several years before that. Steep learning curve, but learned from experience. Adapting to the new state's environment and a bigger property may be challenging. I have my own style involving llama guards and will move to a better system of rotational grazing.

They question is how to put up fencing with the tractor. So far, what I'm getting is I have to clear the trees for a path, use an auger for the corners and Hs and a T-post pounder, perhaps not manual. It seems a fence stretcher is better than using the tractor to pull the fence. Again, all I'm trying to do is figure out what implements I may need which in turn will tell me what sized tractor to buy. I have lots of questions about fencing, but I'm tryin to stay on topic. Thanks all.

David72645 · Jun 3, 2019

Leonz Thanks for taking the time and interest for your reply. I've been sheep farming for about four years; goats for several years before that. Steep learning curve, but learned from experience. Adapting to the new state's environment and a bigger property may be challenging. I have my own style involving llama guards and will move to a better system of rotational grazing.

They question is how to put up fencing with the tractor. So far, what I'm getting is I have to clear the trees for a path, use an auger for the corners and Hs and a T-post pounder, perhaps not manual. It seems a fence stretcher is better than using the tractor to pull the fence, although I see some using the tractor. I don't have welding skills. I'm not sure if rolling the fence or carrying it would be better. grsthegreat thanks for your photos. I like that setup. Will try to reproduce some of that. Again, all I'm trying to do is figure out what implements I may need which in turn will tell me what sized tractor to buy. I have lots of questions about fencing, but I'm tryin to stay on topic. Thanks all.

quicksandfarmer · Jun 3, 2019

I would say the biggest question is how much the land needs to be cleared. To put up a fence you basically need the equivalent of a road. If it's just overgrown with brush you may be able to clear it with a tractor and a rough mower. But if it's gotten woody -- if you have to dig out stumps for example -- that's no work for a tractor, that's for a bulldozer or skid steer with a mulching head. That's a one-time job though. Once the fence is built you're going to have to keep it from getting overgrown again, probably the easiest way is to spray it with roundup. So budget for a sprayer. Unless your livestock can keep it clear.

I've put up lots of woven wire fence, I'm partial to the Kencove sheep and goat fence, 48" tall with 4" squares. I use 6' T-posts, put them in 18" with 6" showing over the woven fencing, then run a single strand of electric along the top of the posts. That makes the fence harder for goats to jump over and also keeps the animals from going up and pushing on the fence.

My construction process (and this is not something I invented, there's lots of videos on Youtube) is I make a corner out of wooden posts which I put in holes made with the auger. I attach the woven wire to the end post by wrapping it around the post and tying it to itself using a fence bending tool. Then I put the roll of fence on an unrolling attachment I got at TSC, and drive toward the next brace. If the roll runs out I splice it to a new roll using a crimper and keep going. When I get to the next brace I drive about 30 feet past the brace and then tension the fence. I use two come-alongs hooked to the tractor, and hooked to the fence by two pieces of 2x4 with bolts squeezing them together. I don't use the tractor to tension, the woven fence doesn't have a lot of give and I've pulled out corner braces by pulling with the tractor. I like the finer control of the come-along. When I get it the tension I want I start doing t-posts. Pound and tie. A post every 10 feet, and four ties on each post -- top, bottom and 16 and 32 inches. After a handful of posts I can see if the tension is right, if not I adjust it, then attach the fence to the brace with staples. Repeat until finished. When you get to the final brace tension the fencing as for the others, then one by one cut the horizontal wires about 18 inches past the post, wrap them around the post and tie them to themselves.

If your fence is just a rectangle, it is going to have some long runs -- 60 acres could be 2200 by 1100 feet. (It would be helpful if you told us how many feet of fence you're contemplating.) At some point you're going to hit the maximum length that can be tensioned at once. The Kencove fence is about a pound a foot, so a 2200 foot run is over a ton, you're not going to be able to pull that with a come-along. So you'll need some intermediate braces, which adds to the work and expense. I don't think I've ever done a run over 500 feet without hitting a corner or a gate so I don't know how long you can go.

David72645 · Jun 3, 2019

quicksandfarmer

Its 1300'x2000, so 6600' of fence.

The livestock should keep it clear; won't be spraying.

The overgrowth is woody, not just brush. My estimate is the trees are about 6".

Will look at CountyLine Wire Fence Stretcher CountyLine Wire Fence Stretcher at Tractor Supply Co.. I see there is a thread about it.

Why do you like the Kensgrove sheep fence? Is is worth the premium over what can be ordered into a feed store?

Slowpoke Slim · Jun 3, 2019

quicksandfarmer said:
I would say the biggest question is how much the land needs to be cleared. To put up a fence you basically need the equivalent of a road. If it's just overgrown with brush you may be able to clear it with a tractor and a rough mower. But if it's gotten woody -- if you have to dig out stumps for example -- that's no work for a tractor, that's for a bulldozer or skid steer with a mulching head. That's a one-time job though. Once the fence is built you're going to have to keep it from getting overgrown again, probably the easiest way is to spray it with roundup. So budget for a sprayer. Unless your livestock can keep it clear.

I've put up lots of woven wire fence, I'm partial to the Kencove sheep and goat fence, 48" tall with 4" squares. I use 6' T-posts, put them in 18" with 6" showing over the woven fencing, then run a single strand of electric along the top of the posts. That makes the fence harder for goats to jump over and also keeps the animals from going up and pushing on the fence.

My construction process (and this is not something I invented, there's lots of videos on Youtube) is I make a corner out of wooden posts which I put in holes made with the auger. I attach the woven wire to the end post by wrapping it around the post and tying it to itself using a fence bending tool. Then I put the roll of fence on an unrolling attachment I got at TSC, and drive toward the next brace. If the roll runs out I splice it to a new roll using a crimper and keep going. When I get to the next brace I drive about 30 feet past the brace and then tension the fence. I use two come-alongs hooked to the tractor, and hooked to the fence by two pieces of 2x4 with bolts squeezing them together. I don't use the tractor to tension, the woven fence doesn't have a lot of give and I've pulled out corner braces by pulling with the tractor. I like the finer control of the come-along. When I get it the tension I want I start doing t-posts. Pound and tie. A post every 10 feet, and four ties on each post -- top, bottom and 16 and 32 inches. After a handful of posts I can see if the tension is right, if not I adjust it, then attach the fence to the brace with staples. Repeat until finished. When you get to the final brace tension the fencing as for the others, then one by one cut the horizontal wires about 18 inches past the post, wrap them around the post and tie them to themselves.

If your fence is just a rectangle, it is going to have some long runs -- 60 acres could be 2200 by 1100 feet. (It would be helpful if you told us how many feet of fence you're contemplating.) At some point you're going to hit the maximum length that can be tensioned at once. The Kencove fence is about a pound a foot, so a 2200 foot run is over a ton, you're not going to be able to pull that with a come-along. So you'll need some intermediate braces, which adds to the work and expense. I don't think I've ever done a run over 500 feet without hitting a corner or a gate so I don't know how long you can go.

That's pretty close to the way we used to run fence when I was a kid. Used the tractor as the anchor for the come-a-long, never to tension. In spots too rough to get the tractors in, we'd use an old Willy's Jeep.

quicksandfarmer · Jun 3, 2019

David72645 said:
Why do you like the Kensgrove sheep fence? Is is worth the premium over what can be ordered into a feed store?

Here's a link to the Kencove fencing I use:
Woven Wire, 4"x4", Sheep & Goat 33' Roll

It's $245 for a 330 ft. roll. It's high-tensile steel and class III galvanized.

Here's what TSC sells:
Red Brand Goat & Sheep Fence, 48 in. x 33 ft. at Tractor Supply Co.

It's $249 for a 330 ft. roll. It's low-carbon steel and class I galvanized.

Both are 12.5 gauge and weigh about the same (250 lbs).

The high-tensile fence is a lot stronger. I have some of the low-carbon fencing and it has a tendency to snap when strained. The class III galvanizing lasts a lot longer than the class I. The Kencove is slightly cheaper and a much better deal.

If you go to 6" spacing, the cost is around $150/roll and they weigh about 150 lbs. That spacing is too big for goats. Adults with horns will be constantly getting their heads stuck. Kids can go through a 6" opening until they are quite old.

David72645 · Jun 3, 2019

I see that Kengrove is better than Red Brand. Shipping 20 rolls would be another $1500. I'll keep it in the back of my mind. I wonder if there are brands of fencing with the qualities you like that can be ordered into TSC (or the like.)

My local feed store can get this: https://fencing.bekaert.com/en/beka...b-fence/gaucho-high-strength-sheep-goat-fence. Don't know the price yet.

oosik · Jun 4, 2019

My 80 acres is a pure rectangle - 1320 x 2640. It took around 570 T-133 posts and 34 rolls of barbed wire. All the T-posts were driven with a home made manual pounder. I used the tractor to move supplies. It simply takes too long to position the tractor to use any type of tractor actuated pounder or auger.

A lot of my fence line is not accessible with a tractor.

Yes - I wish I would have had help but that simply was not the case.

I used my Handy Man jack to stretch the barbed wire. This five strand barbed wire fence has been up 38 years now and is still tight and strong.

I check the entire fence 2X annually. And I'm more than glad that I installed it 38 years ago. Now I would have to pay to have it installed.

Birdhunter1 · Jun 5, 2019

A tractor mounted hydraulic post pounder will out produce a post hole auger unless you have alot of rock, you can put your corners and your steel tee posts in with. No concrete or packing dirt or rock into holes will be needed and it will be twice as solid in the ground. Shaver makes a really nice one, kencove looks to be built the same and you could be in either brands 8" driver for under $4000.
For what its worth if I was bidding pounding your posts you would be money ahead to buy a driver.